Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Farmall H, HV & Super H, 300 & 350, 1939-1958

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oldfarmkid
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Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:19 pm

Next seal that needs replacement is the oil seal for the belt pulley. Tractor is a 1940-H. I have the service manual, but when I see shims listed in the parts list. Followed by the instructions, procedure for disassembly and reassembly is apparent after studying Fig. IH477, well... I don't trust them. Or maybe I don't trust my ability to correctly study fig. IH477. I've attempted some research, mainly see instructions that say, get a service manual, do what it says.
Is there a kind soul out there that could either point me to some better instruction or let me know what to look out for, from your own experience.
Was thinking it was a matter of removing the belt pulley, pull the old seal, tap in the new. But have read it consists of removing the entire shaft, and several cautions were noted.

Thanks Again

Tim

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:46 pm

I have done it, though it has been a while, and it is not as bad as the service manual makes it. The flat part the pulley bolts to is part of the shaft, so the shaft does have to come out. Remove the bolts holding the retainer immediately behind the pulley, and you can pull the parts you need out, but it will probably be stuck pretty good. The shims are right behind the retainer, and you need to put them back when reassembling. There were 2 different pulley assemblies so you will need to take it apart to see aht is there. The bevel gear is held on the shaft by either a nut, or a bolt and plate depending on which one you have. Remove that and take the bevel gear off, and the woodruff key, then the shaft will slide out but do not loose any parts. Mine used an O-ring for a seal behind the retainer, I am not sure if both do or not. As to the preloading in the manual, unless you intend to do huge amounts of belt work I would not worry, probably not then either, it has lasted 60 years the way it is. Unless the pulley assembly has been removed and drianed and cleaned recently you will find about a half gallon of the nastiest goo up there. Oil is thrown up to it by transmission gears, but it does not drain back, it lays there until enough accumulates to overflow, then the good stuff on top runs back to the tranny. There are instructions in the owners manual about refilling the pulley housing if you clean it out.

parts layout, click attachments and scroll down to belt pulley
https://partstore.caseih.com/us/parts-s ... 088ag53829
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oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:47 am

Excellent John, just the kind of info I was looking for. Guessing I'll have the joy of goo removal also, if the transmission gear lube change is a good indication . I do have visions of the shims flying out, unseen but heard, once the retainer and shaft release from the casting. Am I correct in this vision of things that can go wrong. If both shims are not the same, wrong shim in wrong place equals learning more about the belt pulley drive assembly than I want to know. In the back of my mind I have imagined being invited to provide power to a thrashing machine or grinder at a local show. Want the old girl to be able to accommodate without concern from clearances due to shim placement reversal. Maybe it's a mute point. Getting close to eighty years old, shims might not be correct anyway due to wear in the rest of assembly. And like you said, providing power for an hour or two is not a huge amount of work. Main goal is keeping oil in the pulley assembly and not on the shop floor. Thank you also for the attachment of the belt pulley parts list. Most helpful.

Take Care

Tim

oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:27 pm

OK, see that I'm concerned with shims (Y). I have six of them with (U) shaped notches about 1/4 deep and 3/4 inch wide. They all have to be aligned at the six o'clock position to mate with the retainer casted channel, allowing gear lube to reach the outer bearing. The shims are all circular matching the shape and size of the retainer, each shim has three holes punched in them, matching the three bolt holes in the retainer. On re-assembly, put the three bolts thru the retainer, stack each of the six shims with notch at 6 o'clock position to mate with channel in retainer. My fear of shims flying out at the time retainer broke loose was unwarranted. In the figure they instruct you to study, I thought they were small tabs of metal that laid loose in a bucket type casting made for the shims. All untrue, they are exact duplicates of the retainer in shape. I didn't get any of the above from studying Fig. IH477.
You guys are all smarter then me if you did. Thanks again John for giving me enough information to pull it apart this morning. Next task, cleaning the bearings, gearing and shaft. Then figuring out how to remove outer bearing from retainer casting.

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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:17 pm

On mine there was a snap ring in a groove in the retainer that held the bearing. No ears on snap ring, have to use a couple small screwdrivers or whatever you have to work it out of the groove.
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:09 pm

Once I got all the goop off I did see that snap ring. Mine is bent away from the bearing at one end. That should aid in it's removal. But I haven't gotten that far. Have problems with the removal of the bevel drive gear, first item to remove that allows access to everything else. Removed the two bolts at the end, along with what I'll call the metal flange bolt keeper. Removed the washer, looked like the gear should just slide off the shaft and key. No way, have tried a puller, PB Blaster that has served me well in the past, heat and a hammer. Absolutely nothing, no movement at all. Am I missing something John or did you run in to something similar. Think I'll take a break and cry for a little while, then soak it down with PB Blaster for the night.

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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:32 pm

Mine took a little persuasion, but wasn't real hard as I recall. It has been several years ago though.
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:54 pm

Since the gear is beveled, it's tough to get a puller to stay on it. I'll hammer a little more, but if more failure, think I can make a home made press. Reverse the force and push the shaft through the gear. Hopefully an eight ton jack will be enough persuasion. Perhaps just a little more thinking before I start building.

oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:12 pm

Never was able to rig anything to hold tapered gear and begin the process of removal. Knowing it would damage inner bearing,connected a three legged puller to the bearing, confident I could pull everything off together. Added pressure till puller shaft began distorting threaded holes for the bolts and washer that hold the beveled gear in place (normally). Thats when I called it quits. Next day took it to a machine shop located under a local napa store. Good shop. used them before to bore out cylinders and regrind valve seats. They told me , nope can't do it, don't have the proper equipment to hold the beveled gear. Well... crap, but it made me feel a little better about my own failure. They recommended a small shop also local, that works on semi truck tractors. The shop owner was outside working on a truck when I pulled in. Introduced myself, showed him what I had and what it was off of. He thought the reason I couldn't remove the gear by pulling on the bearing was the key keeping the gear from rotating on the shaft. Told me to leave it with him and he would work on it when he got some time. He called about two hours later and said he had it all apart. Also said he was wrong about the gear key preventing me from removing everything by pulling on the bearing. Said all of it should have come off. Stated it took alot of pressure to pop it loose, I just didn't have the means to apply more pressure. He then made an offer that surprised me. He said if I got the oil seal and felt washer, just bring everything to him and he would put it all back together for me too. He also had on hand an inner bearing so I didn't have to order that. Normally I prefer to do all the work I can myself. But I couldn't turn down his kind offer. It's not often I drop off something broken, and carry out a back to normal item. Parts coming from Atlanta so hopefully will arrive this week yet.

oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Oil seal and felt washer arrived today. Delivered them to the semi tractor shop that got everything pulled apart for me. I was interested in seeing the oil seal because he had mentioned over the phone it was a leather seal, and i've never seen one. He also stated a rubber seal is always better, but they still make leather seals. Says they work best in grease sealing applications. Just thought I'd pass along that info in case your like me and thought leather seals were a thing of the past

oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Got a call this morning from Mike, the owner of the shop. Said the belt pulley shaft was put back together. On my way there, stopped at the bank and with drew enough cash to hopefully pay for his work. Found him in his shop, looked over the newly re assembled belt pulley shaft. Talked about old/ new tractors for awhile. Told him I better settle with him and let him get back to work. He said I owed him nothing. Would not even let me pay for the new inner bearing he supplied. His quick turn around and kindness just floored me. Not much of that in the world today. So Mike in Anderson, South Carolina, I salute your kindness and donation towards myself and an old tractor. Your generosity will help keep us both, man and machine happy. Installed shaft back into housing and all is well, no Leak. Can life get any better than that?

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Ran into a similar situation. A friend of mine has a body shop and there work was a little slow and I took a front axle to him to see if he could loosen it so it would slide out. I told him how much fun they were and showed him some of the rigs that had been used. He is a guy that loves a new challenge, and decided to try it. A few days later he called me to come and get it, and when I went to pay him refused anything but what he figured the acetylene and gasoline had cost him.He said he and his brother had spent nearly a day and a half, but got it done. He did say he didn't want to do another one though.

It was an axle I had bought to replace a right spindle on an axle assembly for my loader cub, and a friend wanted the center tube for a lowboy, so he could not use the spindle assemblies.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

oldfarmkid
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Re: Belt Pulley Seal Replacement

Postby oldfarmkid » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:52 pm

Oh no, could it be possible? Kind people everywhere.


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