oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Farmall M, Super M, 400, 450 & 560 Tractors, 1939-1963

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offrink
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oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby offrink » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:16 pm

So after an oil change that seemed to have some antifreeze and milky oil in it the tractor got all put back together and runs no problem and has great oil pressure. There seems to be an oil leak high on the head that I can't see due to the hood. Any idea where this leak could be from? Did I just overfill a little and that's it? it runs down the manifold side and lost about a half a cup already.

Second question is how hard is it to switch from a belly pump (it has a leak and I haven't source a new gasket kit) to live/distributer driven hydraulics? what else is needed other than the actual pump? They seem to be going from between $200-$300 on ebay. Just thinking that running both would be really nice and was curious about doing it. Also does anyone know step by step direction on how to replace the gasket on the belly pump and/or install the live hydraulics? This is my first time working on hydraulics and it's all a little daunting. I don't want to make a $500 hydraulic mistake!!

Thanks
Ben

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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby Scrivet » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:25 pm

Not sure on a M but on a H adding the live hydraulics is not a matter of bolting on the pump unless you have a very late one. You have to change the timing gear (?) to a heavier one so you don't strip the teeth off it, you have to change the front engine cover so the pump has the correct bolt pattern (or something like that) to mount on, and you need a reservoir for the hydraulic fluid if you are going to keep the belly pump, and maybe a couple other minor things.

Oil leak is probably just the valve cover gasket. Good time to read up on adjusting the valves since you're going to be staring at them when you take the cover off to put the new gasket on. Since you may have antifreeze in the oil why not check the head bolt torque while you're there. Maybe some are loose. (A guy can dream can't he :D )

Belly pump may be a transmission leak, they are all there right together. Overfilled, they love to collect water, can leak out the transmission seals. Either way most likely an easy seal replacement. Getting the pump out might be a little of a pain but is manageable.

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Radec Aksarben
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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby Radec Aksarben » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:21 am

My brother put live hydraulics on my 49 M when he was in college. We found out the hard way that the cam gear has to be upgraded or it will break! The front engine cover did not have to be altered or replaced. He removed the belly pump and used the belly pump housing as the reservoir for the live pump. You will need a spool valve of course. I really like how mine is set up. I made a new control rod that looks similar to the original.

Also you will need an upright distributor. The horizontal distributor will not fit between the pump and the oil filter.

I think you better figure out if that really is antifreeze in the oil or water. You might have a bad head gasket or cracked head. It hopefully is as simple as a loose valve cover or bad cover gasket like Scrivet said.

Good luck!

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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:50 am

There's factory live pump, and there's aftermarket live pump.

With the factory live pump, the pump replaces the spacer between the front cover and the distributor. A factory horizontal distributor will fit just fine. There are two Super M's and two 400's at my Dad's farm that are set up with the factory pump and factory distributor.

IMHO, you should not bother with any used pumps off ebay. They're tantalizingly cheap, especially when you consider a new factory-style pump is around $900 but if they're shot, they're scrap. There is *NO* rebuilding them, period. If you get a bad one, you have to buy another. If it takes you three pumps to find a good one, you're into it for what a new one would've cost in the first place.

For the live system you need the pump, lines, a two-way open center valve with a relief, and a reservoir. If you want to keep both systems intact, you need a separate tank mounted somewhere on the tractor for the live pump. Otherwise, you can "gut" the belly pump and use it for a reservoir, but keep in mind it only holds 7-8 quarts with the pump removed. One large cylinder, even a two-way, can drain it dry. IMHO again, you need a minimum of 5 gallons for a reservoir if you plan to use modern implements.

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Radec Aksarben
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Tractors Owned: '48 Farmall Cub w/ IH-Danco C2 belly mower
'49 Farmall M w/ factory disk brakes (not super style)
'51 International I-9 - rusty yellow
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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby Radec Aksarben » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:01 pm

I misspoke. I have an M&W pump. With that one the distributor is actually ahead of the pump.

offrink
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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby offrink » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:36 pm

So it seems that just getting the belly pump working is the best idea then. I was thinking it was a fairly easy switch!

Matt Kirsch
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Re: oil leak and more hydraulic questions

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:55 pm

I'm not saying one way or the other. I'm just giving you an idea of what to expect as far as expense.

Since you already have the pump, you've got nothing to lose but some time and a little oil to set it up.


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