1450 and the "hydro creep"

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1450 and the "hydro creep"

Postby brider » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:00 pm

Hi, guys-

I've posted these same questions on the other forum (ihcubcadet.com) but for some reason, my browser (or just me) has a very difficult time negotiating thru the history, so if you saw this there, please excuse me:

I WAS able to identify my current problem with "hydro creep" as a problem with the trunnion linkage.

After learning that, I wondered if I can operate effectively as is (keeping a close watch on my speed downhill), or if I won't ever be able to see full pulling power (uphill) until I fix it?
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Postby Paul B » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:18 pm

You can continue to use it the way it is, but it will never be right until it is fixed. If you normally use it on hilly ground, it will be much safer, and more fun to use, if you go on and repair and it.
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Postby Ritter107 » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:18 am

I just posted this elsewhere... but i'll repost it. It concerns how to remedy hydro creep. I just did this 5 days ago :wink: You'll have to interpret some of this as i didn't go into full detail... it's easy to understand though once u get under there and look at your problem and see what does what. I refer to a 107 and 147 in this... but the process is the same for all hydros... cuss, pull hair, break knuckles... fix problem, repeat to get just right. Enjoy.


Your linkage is all screwed up. That's the problem you have. There are 2 linkages on a Cub Cadet... one that leads from the brake to the transmission... so when u step on the pedal the tranny kicks into neutral, and one from the SR lever to the hydro.... These are part of your problem. First you must ensure that you do not have any hydro creep going on. Here's how to fix this:

1: Jack up the left rear wheel of the tractor. The on the transmission, Loosen the 2 bolts that hold the Triangular slotted plate to the pump on the hydro. Loosen just enough to let the whole deal slide to the bottom of its adjustment. Lightly snug the bolts enough so that you can move it by tapping.

2) Start the tractor and run at about half throttle... crawl underneath it... and be very very careful under there.... No long sleaved shirts for this. Once underneath take a punch and hammer and tap the mount for that linkage upward until the tire stops moving. Then tighten the bolts (or as I do... just bottom for now until u know you've gotten it... the top one is a real bitch to get to on a 147... I have a 107, same basic machine).

3) Now that the wheel has stopped moving, shut off tractor, and set the parking brake. The linkage that goes from the brake pedal back to the triangular plate on the hydro needs to be set so that when u step on the brakes the hydro goes into neutral. What I do here is set the brake... move the linkage (turn either way) to where I think will be neutral and then start the tractor and see if I found it. Yes... it's a bit unscientific, and it's a chase, but it works... and it's easier to say that than get in depth on which direction to turn it... you'll figure it out. You simply want the brake pedal to pull the hydro plates to the neutral position. I.E... forward into that slot on the Tri plate, and in turn stopping the wheels from any movement. Although.. if the linkage is old and worn... you may get close... but not spot on. That'll have to do.

4) Now that you have the hydro creep fixed and the neutral position found while the brake pedal you must adjust the SR lever to acknowledge true neutral. To do this you must find the threaded linkage with the two ball joints that goes from the bottom of the SR lever to the bottom of the triangular plate on the hydro. Set the parking brake so the tranny is in neutral. Next, pray to whatever God you wish... or better yet, every one that you can think of that the linkage isn't frozen due to rusting(it costs nearly 70 bucks). Go inside... get a shot of Jack... pray some more... and loosen the jamb nut and twist it.

If you're lucky and it is free the linkage will either lengthen or shorten depending on the direction turned. If you're unlucky you'll have to remove it(words can't describe how much of a pain this will be) and attempt to free it up without twisting it off. Remember... it has a right hand thread on one end, and left hand on the other... so be careful when freeing it. Reinstall when done.

The trick here is since the hydro creep has been fixed and the brake pedal linkage adjusted so that it pulls the hydro into neutral to stop you want the SR lever to also go to neutral when the brake pedal is stepped on. That is what turning the threaded rod between the SR lever and the triangular plate does. It adjusts the SR lever to show true neutral and speed selection.

Once this has been done, and all bolts tightened back up fire it up and give it a try. You should be able to step on the brake and come to a dead stop or close to... depending on how bad your linkages were worn in the first place. You should also be able to pull the SR lever into neutral and easily come to a dead stop. If not... start with #1 and try it all again. Don't get discouraged... it's a pain in the but to do... especially on a NF. I have a 107... and it's just a 147 with a smaller engine... space is tight under there. You'll soon figure out exactly how everything works under there and it will become easier to understand what I’m saying, and how to adjust the linkage. Hope this helps everyone who has a hydro creep, or linkage related problem. Cheers.
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Postby R Bedell » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:58 am

Brider:

All hyrdo will loose or gain speed going up or down a hill, a small amount. The speed control lever is NOT cruise control. If you take your car and going up (or down) a hill without moving the gas pedel, it will loose or gain speed. Same principle applies here. If you want to maintain speed on a hydro, you will have to nudge the hydro lever a tad while going up or down a hill. It is the character of the beast. All of my hydros do the same.
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Postby Ritter107 » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:12 pm

essentially... that hydro automatically downshifts when going up a hill or under load. That's hwo it's designed. The only way to get around it is remove the spings from the linkage and fill it with washers... although i wouldn't recommend that.
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Postby Digger » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:56 pm

Brider,
Go here http://cubfaq.com/questions.html and you will find simple answers to your hydro problems.
If not, come back here and tell us or email me direct and I'll help ya out.
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Postby R Bedell » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:31 am

I have rebuilt a couple of Sundstrand Hydros and I NEVER seen no "downshift" feature. Now if I missed this, then cite where in the Parts & Service Manual where this exists.....!!!
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Postby Ritter107 » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:56 pm

Ok... I was trying to be nice, I was trying to help a guy out. If I’m wrong I’m wrong, but don't act like a jerk. That is how I had it explained to me by my neighbor who worked for Cub Cadet for 15 yrs on these tractors. He also worked for John Deere before that. That's where the washers in place of the spring idea came from. I've seen it done before. It prevents the hydro from slowing down under a load... the downshift I was speaking of, a bad idea maybe, but people do it. You may have rebuilt a couple... I can walk next door and talk to a man who has rebuilt a few himself. I only joined this forum for the fun of it... to run some ideas past people even though I knew how I was going to do it before I asked. I mess with Cub Cadets for relaxation, it's fun for me and I don't appreciate getting a smart post referring to my attempt to help somebody. If I’m wrong I’m wrong... I can accept that. However, I don't enjoy reading a response that appears to me as being a bit lippy. I was trying to help out somebody who appeared to have a problem similar to what I had just remedied. I know I’m going to get another post on this thread along the lines of “calm down” but in my view… the posts above were inflammatory. This is my hobby and I’m not about to let somebody upset me, however I certainly do not like the way the posts above me sounded… flaming a guy who was just trying to help another. Cheers.
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Postby Fordlords » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:23 am

Your post on Feb 9 Ritter helped me out quite a bit over what I had in the service manual for eliminating hydro creep and improper hydro neutral lever postion with my 682. About all of these hydro units on older Cubs are nearly the same as far as what I've come across. I think you are right Ritter, it is important to value everyone's tips and opinions, and those who try to force thmeselves as expert know-it-alls with one or two liner, "You are wrong, prove it to me," comeback posts are the ones who truly contrbute nothing because they feel they have nothing more to learn. They cannot even read or interpret a complex adjustment procedure like the one you posted, but I did and it worked. Thanks!

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Postby Leadfoot » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:53 am

Well, I'll stir the pot here..........

R Bedell is correct, there is NOT a 'downshift' feature designed into the Sunstrand hydro transmission found on a Cub Cadet!

I ran across a guy on a different board, who was also 'trying to help', and had folks really screwed up with his improper terminology, and incorrect information. Trying to help is fine, but facts, and correct procedures are the way to do it!!

As I told the other guy, "guessin' and BSin' isn't helping".
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Postby Ritter107 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:19 am

I'm not even going to attempt to further explain my posts, but i will say that using the turn "Downshift" was improper on my part. Simply put i used a poor choice of words to describe what i meant. Crap happens. However... i've messed with these things quite a bit and i'm jsut trying to help. SImply put... not everyone who reads this forum is a IH/CC mechanic and they possibly may not be able to tell a hydro linkage from a brake linkage. If i need a problem solved i'm lucky enough to have a CC guy next door, and maybe when i relay information i muddle it some due to being tired or what not. Anyways... i don't much care, and i'm glad to help out where i can and if i help solve a problem, that works for me. Cheers.
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Postby Jim Becker » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:57 pm

I think about all the useful information for this thread has been given.

This looks like a good place for it to stop.
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