Cub cadet creeper problem found

[JHaburay]

Hi,
Thank for those for offered help on my creeper problem that I posted earlier on my Cub Cadet 100. I will post what I have found and this may help somebody in the future if they have the same problem. I decided to go ahead and get down and dirty with removal after trying a few easy things and hoping that lack of use caused something to just get stuck and it would free up. Yeah, right!. The first thing I noticed when removing the back of the drive shaft from the creeper is that somebody who first installed it used bolts to hold the collar on. Both vertical and horizontal. Well of course, over the years these were elongated and loose as could be with a LOT of slop both directions. This was going to break soon anyway. Took it apart, backed off the rear end and pulled the creeper off. The shift collar is worn in the high gear position. Low gear slots on the shift collar look good, nice and deep. High gear slots, shallow and flattened out. (That's where the grinding was coming from in high all right). Rear gear from the creeper attached to the read end still good it looks like. When the creeper is in high the shift collar will lock onto the rear gear and stay there as long as pressure from the tractor itself is not applied. In other words it will lock in and stay there if you try and move the tractor by hand. However, it seems the tractor itself when under it's own power puts too much force on the worn collar and the play in the drive shaft appears to spin the shift collar right by, thus causing more and more wear each time. At this point there is no doubt a new shift collar is needed. I am posting this because I think the slop in the drive shaft from using bolts (that have since screwed up the shaft holes) to fasten it may have started this whole chain of events over time. I hope this helps somebody else in the future. If anybody seems to think this diagnosis is erroneous, please correct me. I am not easily offended and am only a novice at this stuff. I am now also stuck with a drive shaft collar with some pretty funny sized holes in it. A pin and certainly an original pin, is out of the question for use now. Can I re-drill and use the bolt routine again only doing a better job? If I get ten more years out of it, I'll be more than happy. Thanks-----John

[Paul B]

The bolts in the collar probably did not cause the gear problem, but did cause the elongated holes, and will do the same if you use bolts in new holes. I would find another collar/coupler and use the correct spirol pins (not common roll pins).

The creeper really doesn't have a Low and High gear as such, even though the decal (if there is one) may say that. It is actually an underdrive unit, Low gives a 4 to 1 reduction in the tractor speed, High is just direct drive the same as if there was not a creeper installed. The creeper should be used as a means of reducing the tractor speed when operating at high engine RPM, such as when using a snowthrower or a rear tiller. It is not, and was not, intended to be used for more "pulling power".

The worn gear(s) were most likely caused by someone shifting between low and direct range while the tractor was moving (the creeper cannot be used like a TA in a bigger Farmall), or by trying to put the creeper in "neutral". It does not have a netural or out of gear position and the owners manual tells that, it should be in one range or the other and not "in between". It would appear from what you found, that some previous owner or operator may have used one of both of the above practices rather frequently.

[JHaburay]

Paul,
Yes, I realize that high is just a straight line into the rear. What it appears is that the collar inside the creeper certainly shows that the high (normal) speed is almost totally worn as the deeper you get back into that collar the gears start to look nice and deep again. When in low the collar will certainly have a good grasp on the read gear and I guess that's why it doesn't slip in low. when I flip the handle, what appears to make contact with the rear gear is for sure worn enough that it either won't line up and get a grip, or if it does happen to fall in, slides by as soon at you let off the clutch. I was thinking that the play in the drive shaft clunking back and forth might cause those to wear out as well as the misuse of the creeper itself by the previous owner. Looks like a replaced drive shaft coupler won't really help as the hole in the drive shaft is also elongated terribly, or is it as long as the coupler is tight to the pin the hole in the drive shaft can be a little bigger with no problem. Should I screw around trying to make this drive shaft work or just get another one, cut it down and start over? Thanks --John

[Paul B]

I don't believe the slop in the driveshaft/coupler caused the problem. The wear is from abuse or "shifting on the fly" in my opinion (and if I understand what you are saying correctly I would about bet the farm on it), or from the shifting collar not moving far enough to complete the shift. Does the end of the yoke that moves the shifting collar appear worn or "stepped"? The yoke should be the same width all the way around, no notches or "steps" in it where it contacts the side of the groove/ channel in the shifting collar.

Get another drive shaft and coupler. A standard, or non-creeper drive shaft, is factory grooved where it needs to be cut for use with a creeper, and the pin hole for the coupler is already drilled in it.

[JHaburay]

Nope. As far as I can see the yoke seems in fine shape and also seems to push the shift collar plenty to and fro. Not that I am 100% sure what I am actually looking at but it seems that if that collar was not worn in the front half to three quarters of an inch back, the crepper would work. I will investigatge getting a new shaft and also looks like I need a new shift collar as well. Any ideas who may have one or the cost of this collar? Thanks a lot. ---John

[Paul B]

The shift collar is available from/through Cub Cadet dealers. It is part number717-3020 and list for $69.41. The yoke is P/N 703-0409 and is $40.36, the Direct drive coupling (the shorter gear the collar engages for direct drive) is P/N 717-3019 and is $85.65. I would start watching eBay for another creeper or parts creeper. You can sometimes find the aluminum case creepers on eBay, that sell for less than the IH creepers, that were used in some of the early gear drive models that were built by Cub Cadet Corp. The case is different, and looks different, but all the internal parts are the same as used in the IH creepers. The case is an aluminum extrusion and mounts to the transmission case with 4, 5" long bolts.