Cub Cadet Original with Pull Start--questions

[oldiron1]

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to learn more about the Original's that were sold as Non-Electric/Pull Start.

I just bought a 1961 Original (ser. 17,xxx) with no starter/generator. It has a Kohler 7hp engine with a tag that on it labeled K161 T. I know that the "T" indicates that it's a pull start engine, but I thought it was slightly strange to me that the engine is a slightly different shade of yellow than the rest of the tractor. (The tractor was obviously repainted quite a while back at some point) It has the oil bath air cleaner and the seller told me that he's owned it for many years, so other than the paint color difference, I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be original.

It has a key on/off switch in the normal location. The hole provisions for a starter button and a choke cable are there, but obviously empty holes. I see no wiring indicating that it would have ever been electric, but I guess I'm wondering if all the Originals (even pull start) had the holes for the starter button and choke cable?

I've searched on the internet for a picture of a pull start Original with no luck finding one. How common are Originals with pull start?

Thanks in advance for help! Rob

[Paul B]

Recoil or pull start Originals are not uncommon, but they are also far from being common. The early recoil start Originals did not have the hole in the dash for the starter button of the choke cable. The early ones also had a different das decal that was not labeled for a starter or choke. At some point IH started using the the same dash/pedestal and dash decal on both the recoil and electric start models. It is not known when this change took place but thought to be before S/N 10,000, although that is not known for sure. These are before and after pictures of S/N 653, and you can see in the after picture the dash does not have the "holes". I also owned 1018 at one time and it also was a recoil start and did not have the starter and choke holes. Click on the picture to enlarge it.

[oldiron1]

Hi Paul, Thank you very much for the pictures of your tractor (It looks beautiful by the way!)

What you're saying about the early Originals not having the Choke/starter button holes then down the line utilizing the same dash/tower makes alot of sense. I'm sure IH realized early on that they'd save themeselves alot of dollars having only one common dash/tower!

The approx. serial number beak you mentioned at 10,000ish also make me feel alot better about mine in the fact that I feel that it's much more probable that my tractor at serial number 17,XXX is most likely original. (with the choke cable/starter button holes)

Do you know If there is a serial number list through Kohler to identify the year of a Kohler engine by it's serial number?

Thanks again! Rob

[Paul B]

I am not aware of a Kohler list to identify the year of an engine for engines prior to 1965. I would say your tractor is probably original, although the engine could have been replaced if the color is different. You said the engine is a K161T, which is correct for a recoil start ( or more correctly Retractable Starter) , and the Spec, number should be 28498-E.

[oldiron1]

The good news is looking at the numbers on the engine in my tractor, the Spec # is 28498E, so I'm assuming that it must be the original/correct engine. I guess at some point, someone just had an extra can of yellow spray paint and thought that the engine could use a "du-pont overhaul".....

What does the spec number mean? Is 28498E unique to Cub Cadets? Doing a google search on Kohler K161T, I see alot of topics related to Troy-Built Tillers, so I guess that engine was used on them too, but they all have different spec numbers.

Thanks again, Rob

[wdeturck]

I have an Original with a K181 pull start that I changed from the K-161 S when I found a pull start motor and the pull start pedestal that I didn't check the SN of the tractor when I got the parts. I think that Original had the Electric Starting(377 891 R91) instructions which I have a copy . They didn't put the 12V coil and used the existing magneto and if you had the pedestal without the holes you had to drill them. I'm telling you about this because if a dealer replaced that engine with a short block it may be a K-181 and they would have to use the flywheel shroud needed for the pull start and most likely had a decal to update the engine and didn't put it on. Look at your shroud and see if it's the same color yellow as the Original paint and this would explain the off yellow motor. I wanted the K-181 for my pull start as some use a different magneto than the K-161 with the so called donut magneto which I could never get to start easily like the K-181. I do have the Electricc start on my Original(I use a solenoid and hidden switch) but I have my Original different so people will notice the M&W added transmission.

The coils in those magnetos go bad and are still available from Standard magneto in Chicago, IL part number 230075-WF. You didn't mention if you had it running.

[Paul B]

The engine Spec, or Specification number, identifies the variation or version of the engine you have. The first two digits ( in this case 28) are the engine model code (K161) and are the approximate displacement, the other three or four digits/letters are the variation of the basic engine. Since there are, or can be, different versions or variation of parts used in the engines, the spec number basically tells what variation of parts is in the engine. There are 438 different Spec numbers for the K161 covering spec # 2801 - 281298, plus an additional 813 more for the K161 Generator Sets (4100 - 42633). I don't know why the gen set numbers start with 41/42, because that is not the displacement.

A dealer would use the Spec # and a parts group # (such as #1 for air intake, 5 for Carburetor, 22 for piston & rod, etc) to obtain a variation number. That variation number then identifies which specific part number for a air cleaner, carb, piston, etc., is used in that specific engine. Clear as mud?????

Spec # 28498-E is the engine for an Original w/recoil start. a model 70 used 28911E or 28911N, a model 71 or 72 used 28911J ect. The sufix letter means that some part changed within that spec number at some point, and there will be a part number listed for a given part, to use before that sufix letter and after that sufix letter. The easy way is to give the dealer the Spec number and engine serial number and let him figure it out.............except more and more of the K series engine parts are getting harder to find.

[oldiron1]

Thank you both very much for the education!

Rob