how do you repair a seized engine

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how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:23 pm

a tenant used my 124 and ran it out of oil. The starter turned but the piston didn't move so I have taken off the head, the carb and the generator as well as several cowlings surrounding the engine. I assume that the camshaft must have broken. Is there a good reference manual or how to diagram to get the rest of the block off, and set about the repairs?
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:50 pm

http://ihregistry.com/books/GSS-1398.pdf

Above link is to the service manual for the tractor. The manual describes how to remove the engine from the tractor.

More than likely the rod journal to the crankshaft is scored and the cylinder walls. The "stuck" is more than likely the piston to cylinder wall. Cam shaft - probably sustained very little damage.

At this point I believe you will need an experienced mechanic to disassemble, measure, and evaluate the engine condition.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:52 pm

thanks. I did just find the service manual. I will take the enginge out and strip it down as much as possible and then take it to a mechanic to "extract" the piston and rebore (keeps fingers crossed)
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:00 pm

Probably cheaper to buy another Cub Cadet than to have the engine professionally rebuilt.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:08 pm

but it wouldn't be as much fun as putting it all back together.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby gitractorman » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:29 pm

Before you go and give up on the engine, pull it and open the oil pan. 99% of the time if a Kohler engine is run without oil, the connecting rod will sieze to the crank shaft because the aluminum rod heats up and melts to the crank.

1) If it was running at idle, that's all that may have happened (siezed the rod to the crank). This is the only way that the crank shaft actually siezes, and you cannot turn the crank by hand. In this case, the engine is likely in very good condition, and may only need a connecting rod and turn/clean the crank shaft. I would still go through a full rebuild, clean everything up, and put her back together.

2) If it was running at wide open throttle, it likely then proceeded to break the connecting rod into a bunch of pieces. You should be able to turn the crank shaft by hand, easily, and may hear some clunking around, but no compression. If you're lucky, the rod did not bang up into the fins at the bottom of the cylinder bore. In this case, the block and cylinder bore are likely fine, and can be honed or bored out during the rebuild.

3) If the bottom of the cylinder bore is sheared off, then you might as well start looking for a new engine. I have seen guys rebuild these in this condition, but they may run for 10 years or 10 minutes, you never know. The problem is that with the chunk missing out of the cylinder bore, it does not affect your compression, however there are all kinds of stress cracks in the block and it will just be a matter of time before it goes.

Good luck,
Bill
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:31 pm

thanks. I thought about just stopping at point 2. This is the kind of detail I needed. I will have the rest of the engine off tomorrow night, examine and let everyone know. Maybe even a picture if I can figure out how to do that.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:34 pm

bad news. I popped the engine out, pulled off the oil pan (there had to at least be a pint and a half of oil still in it) the piston rod came falling out in a couple of pieces. The piston pushed up easily right out of the engine, but the cylinder bore has about a quarter size gash in it right next to one of the fins at the bottom. I assume I am done for. Any words of hope?
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby gitractorman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:41 pm

Yep, that is pretty typical. That actually is not as bad as many I have seen, where one of the lower cylinder bore fins is completely broken off. You may take it to an engine shop to see what they think about boring it. It's really hard to say at this point without actually seeing it.

Now that I think about it, I have a good bare 12-hp block out of a 125 that I was going to sell this fall. Let me know if you decide to go that direction.

Bill
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby ricky racer » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:50 pm

how do you repair a seized engine

Throw enough money at it and that should do it.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm

Bill. I will take the block to a local machine shop and have it rebored if possible. However, I will also buy your block if you are interested in selling it. No reason not to have a spare one on hand if this one is repaired but falls apart afterwards. Let me know how much and shipping. i assume you can ship it to CT. Thanks for all of your advice and help.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby BigBill » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:21 pm

Its good to have extra parts..... :roll:

I been piling up extra kolher engines now for a while. Plus cadet parts used and new too so i have them inhouse when i need them. I would suggest getting gaskets too. I been buying up new pistons too. Some of these parts are hard to get already. I figure they will run out soon too. My only problem is every parts tractor i purchase turns out to be a good running tractor so there harder to part out.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby BigBill » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:42 pm

billb61460 wrote:Bill. I will take the block to a local machine shop and have it rebored if possible. However, I will also buy your block if you are interested in selling it. No reason not to have a spare one on hand if this one is repaired but falls apart afterwards. Let me know how much and shipping. i assume you can ship it to CT. Thanks for all of your advice and help.


Why ship it? Just meet at the next Northeast cub fest???? We have one in the fall right?

BTW; These cub fests are great for shipping stuff across the country too. My Wisconsin powered generator came from Kentucky to Ct if i remember correctly. These guys are awesome for shipping stuff too. It can go from cub fest to cub fest. I did give him some $$ for gas money too. I would of have to truck freight the heavy stuff.
Last edited by BigBill on Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby billb61460 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:43 pm

It's difficult to "part" with them.
1947 cub #7131
1948 cub
1949 cub #91491
1949 cub #93744
1950 cub #110652
1960 cub
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1929 Ford Model A roadster
billb61460
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Re: how do you repair a seized engine

Postby BigBill » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:45 pm

billb61460 wrote:It's difficult to "part" with them.


I know I have 9 cub cadets right now. I also have 3 int154's and one farmall cub too.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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