CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

IHC Cub Cadet Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cadet related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:11 pm

My wife has been rototilling our gardens with the Cub Cadet 124 this week. Today I removed the tiller in order to change to the mower deck and I discovered the creeper drive would not shift out of low range. I jacked up the Cadet and checked the oil level in the creeper gearbox and added some. No change. The creeper shift lever moves about 1/2 or 2/3 of its normal travel toward the high range position then stops. I don't want to force it, so I just stopped right there and am asking for help. Has anyone had this problem? Thanks!

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby gitractorman » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:19 am

Try placing the tractor in 2nd gear, with the engine OFF, and rock the tractor back and forth by hand while trying to shift the creeper drive. It should pop out of gear for you.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:38 pm

I tried rocking the Cadet in 2nd but it didn't change anything. The creeper shift lever moves out of low to the "neutral" position but will not move any closer to the high gear position. The lever feels normal but when it gets to where the high gear range should be engaging it just won't move any farther. It's like the gears don't quite mesh right. Last year there were times when it did this and I was able to put the main transmission into neutral, let out the clutch, then depress the clutch and the creeper would shift the rest of the way into high range just like it should. I'm hoping it's not something internal. What's my next step?

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby gitractorman » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:20 am

My guess is the creeper drive is full of old, dried, caked, grease. It's time to take it apart and rebuild/clean it. There's not much else you can do. It's likely that there is nothing wrong with the creeper drive itself, just that the grease has gotten so caked up that the gears will not move freely, and it's holding one of them in a spot where they will not mesh together. It's inevitable that this will eventually happen, so after 40 years, I'd say that it's time to tear her apart.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:36 am

Rats! I kind of suspected that it might have to come apart. I think you're right, that the old grease may be the problem. Is there a shop manual for the 124 that is still available? I have the Operator's Manual that I copied online. In the parts manual it doesn't show much either. I did see a manual on how to install a creeper drive on a Cadet that doesn't have one. Do I have to split the tractor to get the creeper unit off? It sounds like I've got a real project on my hands. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Any helpful hints would be appreciated.

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby JimT » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:56 pm

I don't know anything about the creepers but I found this http://www.cubcadetcollectors.com/manua ... itemId=352 maybe it will help.

PS: When you click on a page click on it again and it will get larger.
JimT

Image

If you can't find it, don't lose it.
User avatar
JimT
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2179
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:36 am
Location: TN, Santa Fe (South of Nashville)
Zip Code: 38482
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub-Buttercub
582 Cub Cadet-Brutus
109 Cub Cadet-Bee-atrice
129 Cub Cadet-Artie

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby gitractorman » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:38 pm

You don't really have to split the tractor, but you may want to just for ease of access. The rear end comes out of the tractor by taking out 3 bolts on each side of the frame. You can block the frame up off the ground, or I've even laid the tractor over on it's side to work on the driveline before, but you have to be careful about your sheet metal when you lay it over. You have do disconnect the brake linkage, push the roll pin out of the drive shaft coupler and the whole driveline will come out as one unit. Then it's easy to work on the creeper drive. You can get the full parts blowup on http://www.cubcadet.com in their Parts section. Just do a search for 124 under the model number, and it is the first item that comes up. Here is the blow-up of the creeper drive from their parts search.

Image
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:58 pm

Thanks to both of you for your support. I have copied off the manuals and exploded diagrams so I can have them with me in the shop tomorrow when I start this project. I have bookmarked all of the URLs and will save them for future reference. When I get the unit out of the Cadet I hope I will see how to proceed from there. The exploded diagrams really help. Hopefully just cleaning the gunk out of the creeper unit will solve my problem.

One manual said to use HyTran or 30W engine oil in the creeper drive and the other said 140W gear oil. Since I just bought a 5 gallon bucket of HyTran for use in the Cub I'll just use it in the Cadet as well, assuming this is correct.

Again, thanks for the help and I'll keep you posted on how it's going, maybe even with photos.

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby gitractorman » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:07 am

Yea, as you can see it's a pretty simple unit. You should be able to take it apart, clean it real good, and put it back together. The only real part you may need is #4, the gasket, but some good Permatex may work just as well if you let it dry over night before filling with oil.

As for oil to use, anything that you have there will likely be fine. If you've got HyTran, I would use it, just because it deals with moisture very well. You should not have to do this again for another 40 years or so.
Bill
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby Paul B » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:47 pm

I doubt if old grease is your problem. If you look at the parts breakdown of the creeper, Item 23 is held onto item 21 by a small spirol pin. I'm betting that the pin is backing out of 21 and is hitting or binding on the bottom of the case and preventing you from completing the shift. Item 23 fits in the groove of item 10 to shift it in and out of the two ranges, and the groove in 10 will wear the ends of 23 down (after 40+ years of use) and can also cause an incomplete shift.
Paul B
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 2338
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: KY, Louisville
Zip Code: 40218
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:16 pm

I got the trans & rear end moved back in the frame and removed the 4 bolts that hold the creeper in. It won't slide out. I'm not going to break anything by forcing it. I got the creeper about an inch out from the trans but it won't move any farther. What am I missing?

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:23 am

Late night update: Just after the last posting I sprayed the bolts that hold the seat platform and rear fenders and let them sit for about six hours. The Kroil did its magic and I was able to finally get the entire creeper/transmission/differential unit out of the frame and on the ground. Now I have good access to the creeper unit. How do I remove it from the transmission? It still won't slip out of place, so something must be still retaining it. It's slow, but I am making progress.

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby BigBill » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:29 am

paulb mentioned the pin may have moved out so its not allowing the shifter/engagement slider gear to move off the splined shaft. I think he is right. Parts 6 & 10 engage with part 11 so it all inter faces together. If there is room for the pin to come out a tad i think it can jam things up so it won't fully disengage between the two ranges. If you angle the housing the fork may come off the slider and will come out. I'm not sure if there is enough room but its a shot to try it. Bill
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 5705
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: in northern usa
Zip Code: 00000

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby ebax » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:20 pm

Right now I can only pull the creeper about an inch out from the transmission, just enough to get the two locating pins out of their holes. Would there be any advantage to taking the front cover off the transmission? Or does the creeper just have to come out one way? While I had the whole creeper, transmission and rear end out of the Cadet I pressure washed decades of grease and crud off it. Maybe I'll be able to see it a bit better now that it is cleaned up.

Ed
Two 1953 Cubs, 1948 Cub, 22 mower, 10A disc, 144 cultivators, 189 plow, 54A blade, Johnny Bucket
1968 Cub Cadet 124, Cub Cadet 129 and Cub Cadet 782, mower decks, rototillers, front blades
User avatar
ebax
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:06 am
Location: WA, Zillah
Zip Code: 98953
Tractors Owned: 1953 Cubs (2)
1948 Cub
Cub Cadet 124
Cub Cadet 129
Cub Cadet 1200
Cub Cadet 782 (CCC1712)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: CC124 Creeper Stuck in Low Range

Postby Paul B » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:31 am

There would be no advantage to taking the front cover off the transmission, it won't come off anyway unless the creeper is off. You can try working the creeper shift lever back and forth while trying to remove the creeper, but I don't think that will help. If the bolts are out, there is nothing to hold the creeper on the transmission other than the splined gear on the transmission input shaft, or the pin that holds that gear on the shaft.
Paul B
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 2338
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: KY, Louisville
Zip Code: 40218
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Next

Return to Cub Cadet Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests