Model 782 - Rag Joint

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Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby fraso » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:53 am

Back in 2006, I repowered my CC Model 782 with a Honda engine. While doing some PM this summer, I noticed that my rag joint is starting to disintegrate, likely due to a small misalignment between the engine and the shaft.

Any advice about sourcing a good rag joint for this tractor?

Any advice about replacing this part?
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby gitractorman » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:47 am

Fraso,
They're easy to replace, but having a 9/16" ratcheting wrench (not a ratchet and socket) makes it a lot easier. There's not quite enough room for a ratchet and socket, but a ratcheting wrench and a regular wrench work great. There's a chance that you'll have to unbolt the engine from the frame and slide it forward in order to get them out. If I remember right, the drive shaft pushes through the middle of them a bit, so you cannot just unbolt them and slide them out. I just had them apart in my 1811, but I took the whole engine out, so I cannot remmeber exactly if you can just unbolt and slide them out without removing the engine.

It is Cub Cadet part number 722-3000, and they list for about $15 each from a dealer. If I remember right, you need two of them.

Here's a set on e-bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cub-Cadet-582-6 ... 41752e3250

Bill
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby fraso » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:49 pm

I wasn't too worried about changing out the rag joint but I wanted to stay away from junk offshore replacement parts.

I had some errands to run today so I thought I would stop at the Case/IH dealer in Vineland to pick up some IH red paint and see if they had any rag joints. It turned out that there is a Cub Cadet restorer in Grimsby (Bill Vickers) who gave me paint recommendation (IH2150) and told me that he may have some rag joints. I stopped by to visit Bill and he is quite a character. He's got many (I don't think I can count that high) CCs of various vintages (all before the red series of CCs) and appeared to be working on at least 4 in the shop. After an hour of talking tractors, he sent me to the Binbrook Cub Cadet dealer where I bought a couple of OEM rag joints (PN 922-3000) for C$8.34 each.

I'm going to try talking my millwright neighbor into helping me as I think the slight misalignment did my old rag joint in. I'm hoping that he's got more experience in driveshaft alignment than me. IIRC, Bill told me to make sure the that rear drive shaft isn't worn as this could also cause my rag joint to wear out.

Frank
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby gitractorman » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:34 pm

I really don't think a slight misalignment in the engine will wear much on that joint. If you look at how it all works, it really shouldnt matter much, as long as something is not really far out of alingment. I know when I've pulled engines and put them back in, I basically get all the bolts in finger tight, give the engine a push and tug a couple of times, then tighten it all down. Never have had a problem.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby fraso » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:36 pm

I've delayed this repair as long as I could but have now pulled the engine to replace the rag joint. While cleaning the engine up, I noticed that the engine-side of the drive shaft has some wear. When I got the rag joint apart, the spherical joint had fallen out of the end of the joint and I put it back in place for the photos.

Is there any way for this part to be repaired? If not, where can I get a replacement?

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IMG_1556 (Medium).JPG (61.51 KiB) Viewed 323 times

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Note wear on one side of drive shaft.
IMG_1558 (Medium).JPG (78.56 KiB) Viewed 323 times
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby fraso » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:19 pm

Having done some research this morning, the worn part is a pilot bushing (PN 903-0204, Flange Assembly). I found a local Cub Cadet dealer that stocks this item and picked up this afternoon for $24.70 + HST. The CC parts guy told me that, often when the rag joint wears out, the pilot bushing is shot too. He also said that all of the 82-series Cub Cadets use this part so it should be easy to find.
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Re: Model 782 - Rag Joint

Postby fraso » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:28 pm

I emailed the Small Engine Warehouse (where I got the Honda repower kit) and requested a procedure for aligning the engine with the driveshaft but no-one replied to me. Luckily, my neighbour is a milwright and he gave me a hand with the use of his dial-gauge. He strapped the gauge onto the driveshaft adapter (between the pilot bushing assembly and the crankshaft) and measured the deflection of the driveshaft as I rotated the engine.

I was able to get the engine alignment pretty close side-to-side but the dial gauge showed that the front of the engine was too low. Putting a thick washer between the new motor adapter plate and the original engine plate raised the engine just about perfectly. The rear rag joint was a lot less stiff than the new one and had taken a bit of a stretched deformation (like the engine was previously mounted slightly too far forward). I pushed the engine backward to make the rear rag joint look flat. I wanted to ensure that there wasn't any unnecessary sideways loads on the hydrostatic drive pump.

If you need to replace the rag joint on your Honda engine, I would suggest that you replace both the front & rear joints at the same time. I thought I was buying a set because there were 2 disks in the package but realized later that this was only for one joint. I would also suggest that you buy a pair of speed nuts for securing the bolts of the pilot bushing assembly. These don't unscrew very easily and will probably get a bit mangled as you remove them.

[I later called SEW about the engine's alternator rating and got someone from the tech support department who was quite helpful. He said that they may not have replied to my earlier request because my engine was out of warranty. As I was just looking for a procedure, I thought this was a lame excuse. Anyway, they had no procedure to send me. If you need help from the SEW, call - don't email.]

IMG_1559 (Medium).JPG
Engine bolted down in the frame after alignment.
IMG_1559 (Medium).JPG (93.44 KiB) Viewed 245 times

IMG_1560 (Medium).JPG
Notice how the engine bolts aren't centered in the slotted holes. There is a thick washer under each bolt.
IMG_1560 (Medium).JPG (73.92 KiB) Viewed 245 times
fraso
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