lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:18 pm

Please read the whole post completely.

I got into cub cadet when my buddy offered to sell me a few. I have multiplied to about a dozen or so but I had more. I try to learn most of it on my own but the PTO with the puck release is bugging me out. I install a new puck and adjust the lever so it releases but the puck seems to wear out in a short time. I have in stock a bag bag of new pucks.

I have even at wits end tried a bronze hex bolt in place of the puck with moly on it. It lasted longer but both release parts wore out in time. So it's not the answer.

1. What RPM Do you turn off and engage the PTO?

2. I'm not sure if these pto release systems were ever worked on but the lever with the puck seems off center than the center of the pto. This can be adjusted by adding or removing the flat washers on the lever shaft on the side to side frame width.

Ok I'm at wits end. I purchased two cadet 129's and it seems to me there is a PTO mid redesign release setup using a floating disc on the pto clutch and a brake lined disc on the pto lever. This seems a far better design than the puck system.

How do you use the puck system and not have it wear out?

Do you adjust it on the lighter side so it just released the pto disc.

I'm kind of bed ridden right now and would like to use the time to research into what I'm doing wrong or what's wrong.

I can understand why I see so many cadets parked in yards.
So far there symptoms have been on the ones that show up in my yard are,

Like New parked because of bad gas, blown head gasket. Standard shift(104)
The cylinder has no ridge at the top and the honing stone marks are still on the cylinder walls. I have a new 104 that maybe cut the grass for two seasons.

2. First 129 hydro, broken rubber discs on the drive shaft. Engine turns over with compression.

3. Second 129 hydro is all ok so bad gas was its demise.

4. 70 cub cadet with replacement New 8hp Kohler engine had some use but it was missing a condenser.

5. 100 cadet needed a head gasket and points cleaned.

My point is grab any used cadet there simple to get running. These will out last any throw away mower.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:14 pm

I have only had to replace the PTO clutch release puck one or two times. Usually done in conjunction with an engine overhaul.

There is a metal piece, sort looks like a puck, centered on the front of the PTO clutch and matches up with the puck on the release lever. Check the condition of this piece, see if it rough or scored.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:04 am

Bill,
Wow, lots of things to talk about here. I'm just going to pick a few.

Why are so many Cadets just parked or scrapped? While I would agree with everyone that Cub Cadets are fabulous machines, way overbuilt, and will last probably forever, they are probably one of my LEAST favorite machines to use for mowin lawns!!!! They don't turn sharp enough, are not that comfortable, and the cut is really quite horrible unless you want to mow only about an inch or two high and install gauge wheels for the mower deck to run on the ground. Since the mower decks on CCs were designed to hang from the tractor, they scalp horribly in uneven terrain, and they are just really not that great of a mowing machine. Personally, I have two Cub Cadets out at our hunting camp that I mow with all summer, an 1811, and an 1864. The 1811 uses old CC technology, a 50c mower deck, and it's a strong machine, but the cut is so-so. The 1864 has a 54" deck which rides on 4 caster wheels. It mows very nice, but still scalps pretty good.

I have the 145/125 that I just restored here at home and I have a 42" mower deck for it. I restored the deck, new mower spindles, bearings, etc., and just installed the deck on Sunday to give it a try. The mower deck cuts nicely, at about 2" high, but again, the tractor will hardly turn around in a 12-foot area, so there's no way I would use it to actually mow my lawn. It's just an antique. Installing the mower deck the other day just reminded me how much I hate to mow with these old tractors! I love them, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't give you 10-cents if I had to mow with one!!! Foot controlled hydrostatic drive, mower decks that actually ride on the ground so they don't scalp, high vacuum mower decks that actually lift the grass, cut it then discharge the clippings, and tractors that will turn on a dime, all make for a HUGE difference in the way a lawn looks and how long it takes you to mow it.

A few years ago I went from a CC 149 with a 48" mower deck to a Simplicity Conquest, foot controlled hydro with 54" mower deck, and my lawn cutting time went from over 3 hours, to just 2 hours!!! No, cutting a 6-inches more at a time did not accomplish all of this, but it helped. The turning and maneuverability of the Simplicity helped a lot too.

I think that a lot of folks just give up on Cub Cadets because they want "new". Personally, I've grown up with both CCs and Simplicity tractors, and honestly, there isn't a Cub Cadet built that will cut as nice as ANY Simplicity mower. And yes, the Simplicity tractors are built just as tough as Cub Cadets (heck, the new Simplicity tractors are built MUCH better than the new Cub Cadets!!!), and the mower decks are designed to actually ride on the ground, so they don't scalp, and a Simplicity tractor will turn around a 12-inch tree, rather than a 12-foot circle like a Cub Cadet, so I see LOTS of advantages there with the Simplicity. I think a whole lot of people just see the old Cub Cadets as old junk, and get tired of working on them, listening to their loud, single cylinder Kohler engines, and really just want something new, regardless of how long it will last.

PTO's wearing out. Nearly every Cub Cadet that I've restored, with the manually actuated PTO was adjusted improperly. The PTO's should be adjusted such that when engaged, the buttons just barely touch, or so that you can put a match book cover between the buttons. Also, most folks don't know that when you are NOT running a mower deck, you should engage the PTO so that there is less wear and tear on the PTO (on the old manually actuated PTO's)!!! If you run one around without a mower deck, but keep that lever pulled back, you are actually placing more wear and tear on the PTO than if you had the lever forward and the PTO engaged. When the manual PTO is engaged, everything is locked together and it is all turning at the same time, so there is no wear on the PTO clutch. When the PTO is disengaged, parts are turning on the PTO clutch/friction disk, and those parts will wear because the clutch is disengaged, and parts are turning at different speeds.

So, just another long-winded reply.

Bill

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:11 am

I do find the cub cadet being uncomfortable after mowing my about two acres. About halfway in I'm tired. I find mowing with the 154 much better. But it's the same cadet seat. The farmall style blue and white seat on the 154 is much better.

In the end its time for a modern mower I guess. My son moves for now.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:31 am

The trend has really been shifting towards zero turn mowers. Their numbers have skyrocketed in recent years, for good reasons. You can mow nearly as fast as the thing will move, and get a premium cut, and get into areas that a conventional tractor just won't let you maneuver into. They have their downfalls, but for the "typical" lawn, a zero turn mower can cut your mowing time in half. I personally don't like them, but I also use a tractor for other chores which a zero turn mower is just not suited. However, you'll see this on jsut about any large acreage lawn, and in many places folks have a zero turn mower just for mowing, then a subcompact diesel for chores, loader, tilling, pulling trailers, etc. Having a machine dedicated for mowing, then one for utility purposes, fixes the old problem of too many attachments for one machine and having to swap out attachments for a specific task

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:07 am

Well I will chime in...
Cub Cadets are mostly a hobby for me, I push mow my yard with a Honda mower and bag the grass… except for the occasional time I get a wild hair and want to “test” out the mowing deck on a Cub Cadet at home. Then I experience all the downfalls gitractoctorman noted… (cut, balding, turning issues). A couple weeks ago I was finishing up a 122 with a 42” cast-end deck, I was reworking for my son to use in TX to mow with and thought I would give the deck a whirl in my recently cut front yard… bad idea.. My wife came out and asked “what in the H@$! Did you do”! I kind of scalped the yard and blew the grass everywhere…… Well, I took that mower to my place in NE until my son will get it later this summer. I have about an acre to cut there, the neighbor keeps it somewhat under control when I am not there and I ride around when I am there for fun on the couple 102’s I have hidden there. Well, they had a fair amount of rain and the neighbor didn’t get it cut until the day before I came, he cut it on his JD’s highest setting and it looked like it needed to be bailed! I took the 122 out and it performed like a beast, a cutting machine, cut the old and new grass, not to a finished look I have at home, but suited for the need there. It seemed like the thicker it was the better it cut! So, I guess as they say, everything is relative… it depends on the need!
Adjustment seems to be the key on the PTO’s, several I have had, the previous owners had used a bolt for the button and trashed the PTO button. I have installed several of the brass replacement buttons but not tested enough to form an opinion but there are plenty of favorable testimonies on the Cub Cadet sites.
I engage the PTO at full throttle, or close to it, then moving to full to cut.

Close adjustment as others noted, but again, not used enough to form a solid opinion, most of my Cub Cadets don’t have mowers attached and I have removed the belts and leave engaged.

A picture of one of the 102’s I mow in NE with, definitely not the “manicured” effect needed in this lawn…..
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:38 am

I've never liked suspended decks either, so I run my 50" CC deck floating on a dual guage wheel modification I did myself. Yes the linkage wears a bit, but I don't scalp much.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:13 pm

I'm to the point the 154 will handle most of the mowing while one cub cadet does the trimming in the tight areas.

But I'll keep each cadet for a purpose rather than change attachments.

Model 70. Snowplow
Model 100 w/creeper tiller
Model 104 38" mower
Model 108 w/creeper 42" mower and backup for the 100.
Model 122 42" mower. ??? New Replacement 12hp. Kohler.
Model 1200 44" mower all the cadet upgrades. 1" front spindles, disc brakes, steering upgrades, I have a creeper for it too.
Model 129 42" mower sitting.
Model 129 sitting
108 parts
122 parts
128 parts. A log splitter build?

154 3260 mower 60"
154 snow plow.
154 fel/ backhoe project.
Farmall cub apart needs reassembly, rear fast hitch Kub Klipper, cults,snowplow.

Ongoing jeep tractor project
It's just a hobby

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:19 pm

I would love to have a Cadet, but I agree with gitractorman because of my Wheel Horse experiences. They are tough too and loud (Tecumseh), scalp some, and won't go everywhere. Been mowing with Snapper 30's for Over 50 years. Newest one is 1980 model. Repowered with 12hp B&S, it ain't afraid of nuthing and mows at top speed in high gear! Once had to use a 41 inch cut rear engine Snapper, hated it. Underpowered? 14hp, three spindles. I think the two blade 42 inch rear engine with a 16hp or better V-twin would be an awesome Snapper.

Re: lets talk about the cadet pto designs.

Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:46 pm

gitractorman wrote:Bill,
Wow, lots of things to talk about here. I'm just going to pick a few.

Why are so many Cadets just parked or scrapped? While I would agree with everyone that Cub Cadets are fabulous machines, way overbuilt, and will last probably forever, they are probably one of my LEAST favorite machines to use for mowin lawns!!!! They don't turn sharp enough, are not that comfortable, and the cut is really quite horrible unless you want to mow only about an inch or two high and install gauge wheels for the mower deck to run on the ground. Since the mower decks on CCs were designed to hang from the tractor, they scalp horribly in uneven terrain, and they are just really not that great of a mowing machine. Personally, I have two Cub Cadets out at our hunting camp that I mow with all summer, an 1811, and an 1864. The 1811 uses old CC technology, a 50c mower deck, and it's a strong machine, but the cut is so-so. The 1864 has a 54" deck which rides on 4 caster wheels. It mows very nice, but still scalps pretty good.

I have the 145/125 that I just restored here at home and I have a 42" mower deck for it. I restored the deck, new mower spindles, bearings, etc., and just installed the deck on Sunday to give it a try. The mower deck cuts nicely, at about 2" high, but again, the tractor will hardly turn around in a 12-foot area, so there's no way I would use it to actually mow my lawn. It's just an antique. Installing the mower deck the other day just reminded me how much I hate to mow with these old tractors! I love them, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't give you 10-cents if I had to mow with one!!! Foot controlled hydrostatic drive, mower decks that actually ride on the ground so they don't scalp, high vacuum mower decks that actually lift the grass, cut it then discharge the clippings, and tractors that will turn on a dime, all make for a HUGE difference in the way a lawn looks and how long it takes you to mow it.

A few years ago I went from a CC 149 with a 48" mower deck to a Simplicity Conquest, foot controlled hydro with 54" mower deck, and my lawn cutting time went from over 3 hours, to just 2 hours!!! No, cutting a 6-inches more at a time did not accomplish all of this, but it helped. The turning and maneuverability of the Simplicity helped a lot too.

I think that a lot of folks just give up on Cub Cadets because they want "new". Personally, I've grown up with both CCs and Simplicity tractors, and honestly, there isn't a Cub Cadet built that will cut as nice as ANY Simplicity mower. And yes, the Simplicity tractors are built just as tough as Cub Cadets (heck, the new Simplicity tractors are built MUCH better than the new Cub Cadets!!!), and the mower decks are designed to actually ride on the ground, so they don't scalp, and a Simplicity tractor will turn around a 12-inch tree, rather than a 12-foot circle like a Cub Cadet, so I see LOTS of advantages there with the Simplicity. I think a whole lot of people just see the old Cub Cadets as old junk, and get tired of working on them, listening to their loud, single cylinder Kohler engines, and really just want something new, regardless of how long it will last.

PTO's wearing out. Nearly every Cub Cadet that I've restored, with the manually actuated PTO was adjusted improperly. The PTO's should be adjusted such that when engaged, the buttons just barely touch, or so that you can put a match book cover between the buttons. Also, most folks don't know that when you are NOT running a mower deck, you should engage the PTO so that there is less wear and tear on the PTO (on the old manually actuated PTO's)!!! If you run one around without a mower deck, but keep that lever pulled back, you are actually placing more wear and tear on the PTO than if you had the lever forward and the PTO engaged. When the manual PTO is engaged, everything is locked together and it is all turning at the same time, so there is no wear on the PTO clutch. When the PTO is disengaged, parts are turning on the PTO clutch/friction disk, and those parts will wear because the clutch is disengaged, and parts are turning at different speeds.

So, just another long-winded reply.

Bill



i am a member of the guilty party. i have a cub cadet 147 that's sitting around, i need to do something with it. i really want to sell it but so far no one is buying. anyways i mowed with it for a summer and i was not impressed with its mowing performance. it did not cut very evenly, the main drive belt system was terrible; mow some really deep grass with that skinny little main drive belt, really load the kohler down it will slip and burn up in no time. the deck spindles are expensive to rebuild or replace, almost prohibitively expensive, the PTO design is terrible, the engine is reliable but loud even with a new exhaust, the turning radius stinks, and it sucks gas like a pig for only have a single cylinder engine i couldnt mow my entire lawn without making a fuel stop... ok that being said, its a sturdy little machine and built well just not that great of a mower. did i go out and buy new..... NO WAY. new stuff is worse much worse. in my travels i have seen junk like a cub cadet lawn tractor with less then 300 hours and a cracked block just absolutely terrible quality.

anyways that being said my replacement for my cub cadet is what else but a farmall cub with a 60 danco. what a fine machine in almost every regards, what a difference. i have no need to buy or experiment with anything else. the C60 is smooth, quiet, and reliable. the mower i am using is a danco C3, it uses wonderful heavy duty thick belts and i am on my second season mowing the long main belt that i bought brand new hardly has any noticeable wear, that belt should last a long time. the two cross-belts came with the belly mower and i have yet to replace them. the tractor mows well and gives the lawn a nice finished appearance. the engine despite having 4 cylinders actually burns allot less gas and is ALLOT quieter. i can put 4 gallons in the tank and mow my 2 acre lawn for a month without having to add gas. the tractor is more maneuverable and with a nice wide deck that hangs out far i can make turns tighter then my 147 could dream of. its more comfortable with a sping loaded seat that absorbs the bumps and shocks. it has a PTO system that is simple a trouble free, it always engages, disengages and never slips. it has a nice reliable hydraulic lift system instead of that POS electric junk that the 147 has. i also enjoy sitting up on the tractor, it feels like an AG tractor and i really like that. well it is an AG tractor.

as a mowing machine, i hated the cub cadet 147; i cannot say enough good things about the farmall cub.