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Cub 154 Not Starting

IH CUB Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Lo-Boy related issues.
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Dcroyle
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Zip Code: 16114
Tractors Owned: 79 184
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Location: Mercer Pa

Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby Dcroyle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:41 pm

I had something like what your experiencing on my 184. It ended up being a short in the main harness plug under the dash. Mouse ? I ended up taking the hood off,tank out,side panels off, tunnel cover .loosened the dash,. Took just about everything loose or off except my wheel. That wouldn't come off. I ended up with a lot of new parts including rebuilding the carb. It became an intermintant problem after checking things out the first time I took it apart. It was all worth it though,it never ran so good.

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bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:55 pm

I do have the steering wheel off ...and now the dash. I purchased a new solenoid and will put in on today and see if the tractors starts. Thanks for everyone's help.

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:59 am

I got the steering wheel off and replaced the solenoid. Still nothing. I checked wiring connections, etc. and cleaned connections and made sure wires were staying connected. Finally I got it to start for a minute but then the starter would not stop turning over. I disconnected the battery to get it to stop. I rechecked the wiring and did not find anything obvious. I tried again and the starter/generator would engage from the ignition switch but the tractor would not fire.

I put a spark plug tester on it, and it looks like I am now not getting electricity to the spark plugs. I cleaned the points and rotor cap and still nothing. I have an extra condenser I am going to put on this morning and see if that does the trick. I may try by passing the ignition switch and see what happens. Next step after that is replacing the points. The lights do work when the starter is engaged. I assume the lights do not work off the battery but from the starter/generator. The oil light comes on briefly when I go to start it and then it goes off. So I assume I have sufficient oil pressure. Any further thoughts?

Larry B
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Tractors Owned: IH 184
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby Larry B » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:54 am

Do you have a volt meter?

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:01 pm

Yes, but I will add that having one and knowing how to use it correctly are two different things. So type you response slowing since I am a slow reader!! :wink:

Larry B
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm
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Tractors Owned: IH 184
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby Larry B » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:46 pm

http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Publ ... doSearch=Y

The reason I asked if the headlights worked was because the power for the lights doesn't go through the key switch.
first set meterr to volts DC. Connect black lead to a good ground on the tractor then under the dash panel find the ammeter. Connect red meter lead to the terminal with the red and green wires connected to it. Do you have battery voltage there?
if No trouble shoot wiring from battery to starting relay to ammeter.
if YES we go from there on next post.

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:09 pm

I will check this shortly and get back with you.

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:01 pm

I did some major rewiring today to double check connections, wiring, etc. and tried to match the color code of the wiring diagram I have. Not the most fun working in the small quarters under the dash, but at least I have the steering wheel and dash are off.

Okay, I connected my meter to a bolt on the starter generator as a ground and then to the (negative) terminal on the ammeter with the red and green wire. I got a 13.13 reading with the switch on and a 13.29 with switch off. I suppose the difference could be just where I put my connection from the meter or just simply losing some voltage with the switch on.

Then I connected my test light to the ground of the battery and then to the output (negative) terminal of the coil. The light went on when I turned the switch on so I did it with my meter. I got a 13.30 with the meter point on the output (negative) from the coil and the same reading where the coil goes into the distributor (not surprising but one never knows).

So, it looks like I am getting electricity to the distributor. The engine does turn over when I turn the switch, but I did not go further this evening in trying to start it. I do have a spark plug tester and I can try that tomorrow. Yesterday I was not getting any spark to the spark plugs. I did clean the points yesterday but it is possible they are bad or need cleaning better than I did. Or, maybe the condenser is bad?? What is next? Thanks

staninlowerAL
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Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:28 am

Try connecting your test light to the terminal on the side of the distributor where the wire from the coil attaches and ground the test light. With this connection made, try to start the engine. If the test light blinks as the engine is turning then the points are working, if not then the points need cleaning and or setting or replacing. Gap setting is .020.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:51 am

Yep, connected the test light to the terminal side of the distributor and hit the switch and test light comes on and does not blink. I have an old engine analyzer and I did the same with it. The needle pointed pretty quickly to "points open." Not sure what that is tell me as far as a solution except that probably the points are not closing. TIme to get out the feeler gauge, screw driver, and emery cloth and see if come cleaning (again) and some adjustment does the trick. Or may I just need to change the points and condenser. Gotta do some mowing this morning and then I will work on the tractor this afternoon. Wished it had a crank like most of most of my other tractors do when it comes to changing/adjusting points. I just need patience but I want patience right now!! Thanks for the good advice.

Jim Becker
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:07 am

bookman51 wrote:. . . and emery cloth and see if come cleaning (again) . . .

Don't ever use emery cloth on points. If you have before, that is probably part (or all) of your problem now. Use a point file. Your current fix probably now requires replacement.

bookman51
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Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:08 pm

Thanks Jim

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4974
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:45 pm

bookman51 wrote:......"points open." Not sure what that is tell me as far as a solution except that probably the points are not closing.
What that's telling you is when the points do not allow the completed circuit to ground (that's when the test light stays on). The path to ground has to be completed when the points are closed (test light off). This current flow from the battery to ground causes the induction current from the coil high voltage winding (tower) to flow to the center of the distributor cap and then on to each of the plugs as the rotor turns as it seeks a path to ground (at the spark plugs). :hattip:
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

Larry B
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Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm
Zip Code: 45325
Tractors Owned: IH 184
Location: Farmersville ohio

Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby Larry B » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:36 pm

Looks like you made some progress.
With key on you get power to the coil, good. Next thing to check is the wire from the coil to the points. Remove the distributor cap and make sure the points are on a cam lobe and are open. With key on Connect a meter lead to the distributor body and check for voltage at the moveable point contact arm and also the connection where the wire from the coil connects to the points. If you get battery voltage then double check your point gap.if you don't have battery voltage at the points but do at the the coil troubleshoot the wire from coil to points.

If your meter can measure resistance (ohms) disconnect the wire from the coil to dist and turn engine till points are closed and measure from side terminal of dist to the body of the dist. .2 ohms or less is a good reading.

A simple test is to connect a spark plug wire to the coil tower connection and connect to a spark plug and lay the plug so it touching engine ground and then manually open and close the points with key on. When the points open you should get a spark at the plug.

bookman51
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:15 pm

Re: Cub 154 Not Starting

Postby bookman51 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:10 pm

Well, a new set of points and a new condenser seemed to do the trick. I got the Cub 154 running this evening. When I took the old points out I could see they were very pitted. Now that does not explain why the tractor did not turn over a bit when I first turned the key. Perhaps it was a bad solenoid or a short somewhere. There is a lot of wiring under that dash that is near moving parts or maybe some connection just vibrated lose, but I did not find it. I did some rewiring and checking of connections. So maybe multiple problems. Tomorrow I am going to put on the dash, steering wheel (new) and sheet metal back on and do some mowing with it. I replaced the button on the clutch a few years ago and I have not used it since. I will see if I need to adjust the clutch. Replacing the points and condenser was not real easy with a couple very small screws and a horizontal distributor pretty close to the oil filter. Thanks for all the help and patience.


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