running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

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dengel154
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cub 154

running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby dengel154 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:48 pm

With standard oil level on a 154, can I run in neutral and take off the top transmission/shifter cover without getting alot of oil splashed
out of the housing? I have noise in neutral which I'm trying to identify and it would be helpful to see and hear directly where it might be coming from. I suppose I could drop the oil level some to reduce the churning but any insight would be appreciated

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Bob McCarty » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:53 pm

The gears sling oil into depressions at the front and back of the tranny where it then drips through a small hole to lube the bearings. At the minimum you'd something like clear plastic over the top. I've never tried it, but would be interested to know what happens and what you can ID that way.
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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:01 pm

I'm not sure just where the normal oil level is relative to the bottom of 3rd gear. If any of the gears on the upper shaft is in the oil, they will sling a LOT of oil as they spin. If not contacting the oil, they will sling a bit but not much.

There is a secondary risk in that there will be nothing holding the sliding gears in the neutral position. If one of them slides into another gear, it could strip several teeth off one gear or both.

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Urbish » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:06 pm

Agree with Bob. The input shaft and gears in the trans spin at full engine RPM so if your oil level is high enough for those teeth to catch the oil, you'll get a nice spray out the top. I would recommend pulling the top cover, observing the oil level, and removing some if necessary to get it below the teeth on the input gears. Then you should be able to fire it up and let it run for a SHORT time to diagnose. Note that the shifter won't be there to keep the sliding gears in place, so it could jump into gear without warning. Please report back on what you find.

EDIT: Jim beat me to it.
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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby SONNY » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:08 pm

Don't chance it! --- the gears WILL hit and break, then you can replace the whole trans.!

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:14 pm

Don't the detente balls and springs put enough drag on the rails to hold the sliders from moving? the shifter does not hold them when it is installed. You will get oil thrown out though, the faster the engine, the more oil.

Most likely the noise is coming from the front input shaft bearing, due to the hole at the front that is supposed to drain oil down to it being plugged. Doesn't the 154 use the transmission for a hydraulic reservoir? Depending on where the hydraulic return line comes in, it may throw more oil.
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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:36 pm

I was at the Virginia Cubfest at Boss Hog's (at least I think that's where it was) a bunch of years ago, and someone did what you are talking about (with a regular F Cub). I honestly don't remember the circumstances, but I DO remember being hugely impressed with the slinging oil!! :shock: :lol:

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:26 pm

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Don't the detente balls and springs put enough drag on the rails to hold the sliders from moving? the shifter does not hold them when it is installed. You will get oil thrown out though, the faster the engine, the more oil.

Most likely the noise is coming from the front input shaft bearing, due to the hole at the front that is supposed to drain oil down to it being plugged. Doesn't the 154 use the transmission for a hydraulic reservoir? Depending on where the hydraulic return line comes in, it may throw more oil.

John, you are right on both counts. I lost track and started thinking Farmall A innards.

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby BigBill » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:50 am

Your noise in neutral is probably the throwout bearing or flywheel/clutch. The pin that connects the flywheel to the tranny was probably replaced with a bolt. It’s worn and rattling. Just my thoughts.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:08 am

I don't understand what you can diagnose with the engine running. Worn bearings have slop, bad seals leak. Gears get rounded off or chipped.
The driveshaft can be turned with the clutch in and the tires off the ground. John hit the nail on the head though - The hydraulic oil return comes in through the shifter. This oil will need a return path back into the transmission.

Exactly what are you trying to diagnose?
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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby Glen » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:15 pm

Hi,
It looks like the 154 has the 2 bearings on the upper transmission shaft, like the regular Farmall Cub has.
On the Farmall Cubs, the bearings get noisy after years of use.

Below are pages from the 154 parts manual, showing the bearings. The upper shaft is the 1st and 2nd rows of pics, going down the page. The 3rd, and 4th rows are the bottom shaft. Only the upper shaft turns when running the engine in neutral, with the clutch engaged, and the tractor not moving.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2002.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2003.jpg

The bearings are numbers 9 and 11 in the pic, it says. There is a seal, number 14 that needs replacing also, when it is apart is a good time to replace it.

Below is the whole 154 parts manual, if you need it. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Below are listings for the bearings at TM Tractor, you can look at the pics there.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/521fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/422fp.htm

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Re: running without transmission/shifter cover as a test

Postby BigBill » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:19 pm

Check the rear flywheel that holds the clutch.? If the pin is worn or replaced with a bolt as I seen a few they have this rattle. Unless it’s been run with a low oil level in the tranny.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.


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