184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

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Barna
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184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Tue May 07, 2019 10:47 pm

My 184 craped out today, is started making a loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel for a few seconds and it stopped. When I try to start it is making the same noise. What am I looking at? camshaft? main bearing? Oil pressure seem OK, no pressure gauge but the oil level is good.

If it is a camshaft or main bearing, how difficult of a job is replacing? Total engine rebuild?

thanks,

Barna

Larry B
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Larry B » Wed May 08, 2019 5:04 am

I would pull the driveshaft cover and the side covers and see if the problem is in the clutch or the PTO clutch or drive belts. The C60 engine has a pretty stout bottom end. Check the easy stuff before pulling the engine.

outdoors4evr
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed May 08, 2019 6:48 am

Several options.
1) Clutch Splines are significantly worn
Take out of gear. See how far you can rotate the driveshaft. There shouldn't be much (barely any) slop.
2) PTO Belt Tensioner Pulley has worn bearings or its bracket is worn
Remove the PTO belts and tie them out of the way (slide the belts forward off the tensioner pulley). See if the noise goes away.
3) Worst Case: Broken Crankshaft

Difficult task? Takes a good part of a day to figure out. I'd do as Larry suggested first. Then I'd remove the rockshaft and drop the oil pan.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Barna
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:54 pm
Zip Code: 43334
Location: Marengo OH

Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Wed May 08, 2019 7:51 am

Larry B wrote:I would pull the driveshaft cover and the side covers and see if the problem is in the clutch or the PTO clutch or drive belts. The C60 engine has a pretty stout bottom end. Check the easy stuff before pulling the engine.


This was the first thing I checked, all is OK, I am able to rotate the flywheel and there are no obstructions, nothing damaged observed.

Barna

Barna
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:54 pm
Zip Code: 43334
Location: Marengo OH

Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Wed May 08, 2019 7:54 am

outdoors4evr wrote:Several options.
1) Clutch Splines are significantly worn
Take out of gear. See how far you can rotate the driveshaft. There shouldn't be much (barely any) slop.
2) PTO Belt Tensioner Pulley has worn bearings or its bracket is worn
Remove the PTO belts and tie them out of the way (slide the belts forward off the tensioner pulley). See if the noise goes away.
3) Worst Case: Broken Crankshaft

Difficult task? Takes a good part of a day to figure out. I'd do as Larry suggested first. Then I'd remove the rockshaft and drop the oil pan.


If broken shaft, is this something I can see if the oil pan is removed?

thanks,

Barna

outdoors4evr
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed May 08, 2019 9:06 am

With the oil pan removed, you may (or may not) be able to see the crack while installed, but it becomes very apparent when you turn the crankshaft by hand and one (or more) of the pistons don't move.
Back in 2011, my 184 broke the crankshaft between #3 and #4. I attributed the root cause back to the installation of flat top cast iron pistons (.020 over) when the PO did a rebuild. The pistons should have been the lighter aluminum pop-up pistons.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
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SONNY
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby SONNY » Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 am

Got a 185 knocking too!! ---I was thinking rear main or #4 rod but have no idea at this time and no time to mess with it. When it gets warmed up the knock is a hard steady type like bad rod. It seams to be more towards the back of the motor. --- all drive lines/clutches/belts are ok. -- I don't have any sides/tunnel cover on mine so I can see in there.

Barna
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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:54 pm
Zip Code: 43334
Location: Marengo OH

Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Wed May 08, 2019 10:55 am

After talking to a few people, they suggest that the problem maybe a bad rod. Its ben a while since I did significant engine work but I do have experience changing rods. Is it just pulling the valve cover off and removing the rocker arms and pulling the rod? The last time I did this (1980 Pontiac Phoenix) it was not too difficult. Looks like I have to remove the top cover and gas tank to get to the engine.

thanks,

Barna

Larry B
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Larry B » Wed May 08, 2019 11:45 am

The c60 engine is a valve in block engine or a flathead engine. The valve cover is on the side behind the in/ex manifold. If it is a rod or main bearing you can remove the deck and the rock shaft and I think you can remove the oil pan and check the rod and main bearings. You can use plastigage to check bearing clearances.

Barna
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Zip Code: 43334
Location: Marengo OH

Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Wed May 08, 2019 2:18 pm

Larry B wrote:The c60 engine is a valve in block engine or a flathead engine. The valve cover is on the side behind the in/ex manifold. If it is a rod or main bearing you can remove the deck and the rock shaft and I think you can remove the oil pan and check the rod and main bearings. You can use plastigage to check bearing clearances.


Is this possible to do without removing the engine from the frame?

Barna

tst
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby tst » Wed May 08, 2019 2:48 pm

I am not familiar with the 184 chassis, can you disconnect the clutch shaft like a 154 and then run the engine? if so it will tell you if the noise is in the engine or driveline

Barna
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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:54 pm
Zip Code: 43334
Location: Marengo OH

Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Barna » Wed May 08, 2019 4:02 pm

tst wrote:I am not familiar with the 184 chassis, can you disconnect the clutch shaft like a 154 and then run the engine? if so it will tell you if the noise is in the engine or driveline



100% sure its in the engine,

Barna

Larry B
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby Larry B » Wed May 08, 2019 6:20 pm

Never tried to pull an oil pan with engine in frame but I don't think there is a cross member so you should be able too

BigBill
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby BigBill » Wed May 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Get a long3/8” or 1/2” dr extension. Put it to your ear and move it around to listen where the noise is coming from. Trust me you will hear where it’s coming from.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

seahaul
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Re: 184 engine is making loud knocking noise in the rear by the flywheel.

Postby seahaul » Thu May 09, 2019 9:29 am

In order to remove the front three oil pan bolts on a numbered loboy, remove the two bolts holding the steering arm cross member and it will move out of the way.


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