184 will not shut off with key

IH CUB Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Lo-Boy related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Justbarf
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:04 pm
Zip Code: 49120
Tractors Owned: IH 184

184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:45 am

Hello everyone,

I am at a loss. I am fixing up a 184 lo-boy. I just took out the engine and replaced all the seals and gaskets. I put everything back together and the tractor cranked up like a champ, but when I went to turn the tractor off, it stayed running. I even took the key out and it staying running. The only way to kill the tractor is idling down and choking it out. Now if I disconnect the alternator, the tractor will shut off with no problem. I replaced the resister on the alternator to see if that was it, but that didn't fix the problem. I am not sure if the problem is in the ignition or in the alternator. If anyone has ran in to this problem and know where to begin that would be great.

Best,

Justin

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17627
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Eugene » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:30 am

Electrical wiring problem. Alternator is back feeding the ignition system.

Typically, when this problem occurs, the wire from the #1 alternator terminal is not disconnected when the ignition key is off.
I have an excuse. CRS.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 am

Check Simple things first - check for a short at the key between the run and off position.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Justbarf
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:04 pm
Zip Code: 49120
Tractors Owned: IH 184

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:13 pm

Finally got around to putting in a new ignition switch and of course that did not fix the problem. I am still at a loss.

mozer71
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:33 pm
Zip Code: 22650

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby mozer71 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:38 am

Reread Jim's and outdoors' advise. I don't have an alternator so your particular ignition switch may be different than 90% of them. Your alternator is still charging the ignition system someway, as Jim said.
Positive note; i commend you for the work to make the engine run well. You will be very happy with it. This is a small hurdle. There could be two wires melted together in the wiring harness but you will find it before getting too anxious and risk your work.
Just because a connector socket "fits" doesn't mean the switch is doing the same thing.

Justbarf
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:04 pm
Zip Code: 49120
Tractors Owned: IH 184

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:13 pm

Thanks. I will try and look through the wiring today. I'm so close to getting this tractor running good, I'm just self taught! This is my first tractor project.

mozer71
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:33 pm
Zip Code: 22650

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby mozer71 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:42 pm

I Apologize for getting mixed up. It was Eugene's advise, first reply.

Larry B
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm
Zip Code: 45325
Tractors Owned: IH 184
Location: Farmersville ohio

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Larry B » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:58 am

Check the wiring to the exciter resistor. With key off there should be 0 volts. With key on there should be battery voltage.

Gary Dotson
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 3309
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:20 am
Zip Code: 43358
Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:34 am

One quick test: Disconnect the two pin plug from the back of the alternator. Then see if it starts and shuts off normally. If so, your alternator is not wired correctly. Is the resister on the back of the alternator original or is it a parts store item? If the original resister is replaced with a generic ignition ballast resister (they look the same) it will cause your problem. The correct one has a much higher ohm value.

Justbarf
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:04 pm
Zip Code: 49120
Tractors Owned: IH 184

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:13 pm

Larry - There is zero volts when the key is off and on the exciter resister.

Gary - When I unplug the two pin plug, the tractor cranks and shuts off correctly. The exciter resister is the correct one, glad to know I cannot just buy one from the auto store.

Does anyone know my next train of action?

Larry B
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm
Zip Code: 45325
Tractors Owned: IH 184
Location: Farmersville ohio

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Larry B » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:28 pm

You may have a defective regulator in the alternator. 2 of the wires from the alternator connects to the battery. The other is the exciter resistor that receives battery voltage from a connection at the ignition coil. This provides a voltage to excite the alternator and start charging. If the resistor has voltage on it when you turn the key off with tractor running it will feed the ignition and keep tractor running. Parts to replace regulator chip and diode trio are cheap. It is a standard GM 10si Delcotron alternator. GM made millions of them.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... JQuoNyAUbp

Here is a link to service manual for 10si Delcotron.

The big wire and the one not with the resistor should be connected to battery positive. The small wire goes to one side of the ammeter. The big wire is either connected to battery positive or at the starter relay. The wire with the resistor goes to the ignition coil to pickup 12v when key is turned on.
Last edited by Larry B on Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gary Dotson
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 3309
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:20 am
Zip Code: 43358
Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Gary Dotson » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:58 am

I don't think anything in the alternator can cause this, it's got to be backfeeding through the resister. Check the resister with an ohm meter, it should be a fairly high reading. Typical ballast resisters will read 1.2 - 2 ohm for example. I don't know off hand what the value should be but likely 20 - 30 ohms. Another easy check!

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17627
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Eugene » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:39 am

Just a thought, since you removed the engine, you probably disconnected several electrical connections. And I'm assuming that the tractor started, ran, shut off correctly prior to the engine removal.

Perhaps, an electrical connection miswired.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Larry B
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm
Zip Code: 45325
Tractors Owned: IH 184
Location: Farmersville ohio

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Larry B » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:09 pm

With the key off there should be 0 volts at the + term of the ignition coil. With tractor running measure voltage at + side of coil and turn key off. Is there still battery voltage at coil? If so tractor will stay running. There should be 2 wires going to that terminal. One from ignition switch and the other goes to the alternator exciter resistor. One of them is keeping voltage to the coil. If the wiring is correct. If the wiring has been changed. Good luck.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:19 am

Justbarf wrote:Larry - There is zero volts when the key is off and on the exciter resister.

Gary - When I unplug the two pin plug, the tractor cranks and shuts off correctly. The exciter resister is the correct one, glad to know I cannot just buy one from the auto store.

Does anyone know my next train of action?


You have alternator voltage providing power back into the coil. Look at the light green wire that runs from the alternator to the ignition coil. I have attached a wiring diagram PDF for the 184. I am guessing that this wire is connected to the wrong side of the alternator resistor (internal)
184 Wiring.pdf
184 Wiring Diagram
(337.26 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests