154 ground speed

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john2189
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154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:14 pm

The manual says the 2nd gear is 3.8 mph and 3rd is 8.6 mph. There doesn’t seem to be much difference between these two gears. When I changed trans oil, I took the cover off to drain oil and found a piece of broken tooth. I checked the gears and and found no broken gears. Previous owner must g have changed it. Is there anyway wrong gears were installed? It has the 16” turf tires.

I know my f cub 3rd gear is very fast.

John
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby Eugene » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:56 pm

john2189 wrote:The manual says the 2nd gear is 3.8 mph and 3rd is 8.6 mph. There doesn’t seem to be much difference between these two gears.
3rd is 2.26 times faster than 2nd gear.
I know my f cub 3rd gear is very fast.
7.3 MPH for a standard Cub in 3rd.

All things being equal, tire size and engine RPMs, the 154 is faster in 3rd gear.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:24 am

If you are not noticing a difference in 2nd gear and 3rd gear, then there is something "non-factory" going on there.
Even with a creeper engaged, 2nd gear is really slow and 3rd gear is close to the speed of 1st gear without creeper engaged.

3rd gear is intended for use as a road gear - or transport gear to move between fields (on roads).
You probably need to take a second look at those gears and their sizes.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
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john2189
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:34 am

Thanks but I have it back together now so I don’t think I’ll take it apart to look for awhile. It has no creeper gear.
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby Urbish » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:12 am

Is it possible that your clutch is slipping when in 3rd gear? I suppose you'd notice and sense something funny going on. You should be able to visibly see a size difference between the 2nd and 3rd gears, or you can count teeth to be sure, next time you have it apart.
Jim

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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:40 am

Urbish wrote:Is it possible that your clutch is slipping when in 3rd gear? I suppose you'd notice and sense something funny going on. You should be able to visibly see a size difference between the 2nd and 3rd gears, or you can count teeth to be sure, next time you have it apart.



I don’t think the clutch is slipping, I’ll check that when I cut grass in a week or so. The grass is growing.

Is it possible someone could have mistakenly put a second gear set in place of third gear set? When I had the back plate off the trans I did find a piece of tooth that had been broken and fixed by the po.
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
656 Wheel Horse
C-165 Wheel Horse
Simplicity 20 HP Sunstar

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Urbish
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1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: 154 ground speed

Postby Urbish » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:06 am

john2189 wrote:
Urbish wrote:Is it possible that your clutch is slipping when in 3rd gear? I suppose you'd notice and sense something funny going on. You should be able to visibly see a size difference between the 2nd and 3rd gears, or you can count teeth to be sure, next time you have it apart.



I don’t think the clutch is slipping, I’ll check that when I cut grass in a week or so. The grass is growing.

Is it possible someone could have mistakenly put a second gear set in place of third gear set? When I had the back plate off the trans I did find a piece of tooth that had been broken and fixed by the po.


In thinking about this more, the sliding gears for 2nd/3rd are one unit, so it's impossible to switch out 3rd gear for a 2nd gear set. So this leads me back to slipping clutch. I would definitely try to get eyes on that clutch before you do too much more work with it.
Jim

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john2189
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Urbish wrote:
john2189 wrote:
Urbish wrote:Is it possible that your clutch is slipping when in 3rd gear? I suppose you'd notice and sense something funny going on. You should be able to visibly see a size difference between the 2nd and 3rd gears, or you can count teeth to be sure, next time you have it apart.



I don’t think the clutch is slipping, I’ll check that when I cut grass in a week or so. The grass is growing.

Is it possible someone could have mistakenly put a second gear set in place of third gear set? When I had the back plate off the trans I did find a piece of tooth that had been broken and fixed by the po.


In thinking about this more, the sliding gears for 2nd/3rd are one unit, so it's impossible to switch out 3rd gear for a 2nd gear set. So this leads me back to slipping clutch. I would definitely try to get eyes on that clutch before you do too much more work with it.


Last fall when I bought this, I mowed several hours in 2nd and 3rd. I kept it in 3rd. Never smelled burning clutch. It didn’t seem to slip. But I’ll check it when it warms up a bit.

John
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
656 Wheel Horse
C-165 Wheel Horse
Simplicity 20 HP Sunstar

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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:21 pm

The original gearing for a Farmall Cub had second speed about 49% of third. Before the offset Cub lo-Boy came out, it was slowed a bit to about 44%. Those gears were used through all the numbered Lo-Boys as well. The original Cub Cadet had the same gears. During Model 70 and 100 Cub Cadet production, they changed second gear to about 58% of third. Somebody could have installed Cub Cadet gears. But even with that, you should be able to notice a substantial difference in speed from second to third. Garden tractor pullers cut special ratio gears for Cub Cadets. I don't know what ratios they use. But the likelihood of any of them finding their way into your tractor seems small. Something else must be going on here.

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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:23 pm

What if the shift fork is not moving the sliding gear? Maybe a portion of the fork is missing or just sliding along the shaft and it is just staying in 2nd.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:29 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:What if the shift fork is not moving the sliding gear? Maybe a portion of the fork is missing or just sliding along the shaft and it is just staying in 2nd.

In that case, I would expect it to lock up if he went for first or reverse. No problems along that line have been mentioned.

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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:04 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
outdoors4evr wrote:What if the shift fork is not moving the sliding gear? Maybe a portion of the fork is missing or just sliding along the shaft and it is just staying in 2nd.

In that case, I would expect it to lock up if he went for first or reverse. No problems along that line have been mentioned.



I have thought of it staying in 2nd too, but I can feel the detent ball as I move the shifter. If the fork was sliding on the shaft, then the trans would lock in two gears when trying to go to rev or 1st as Jim said. Tractor moves in all 4 gears.
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
656 Wheel Horse
C-165 Wheel Horse
Simplicity 20 HP Sunstar

john2189
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Posts: 1419
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Wed May 20, 2020 9:43 pm

john2189 wrote:
Jim Becker wrote:
outdoors4evr wrote:What if the shift fork is not moving the sliding gear? Maybe a portion of the fork is missing or just sliding along the shaft and it is just staying in 2nd.

In that case, I would expect it to lock up if he went for first or reverse. No problems along that line have been mentioned.



I have thought of it staying in 2nd too, but I can feel the detent ball as I move the shifter. If the fork was sliding on the shaft, then the trans would lock in two gears when trying to go to rev or 1st as Jim said. Tractor moves in all 4 gears.


Ok had the 154 out and running today.
Goes into 1st and reverse ok
Goes into 2nd ok I can go to neutral then into third, but it seems like it’s still in second. I can feel the detente when I move the shifter
:lost:
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
656 Wheel Horse
C-165 Wheel Horse
Simplicity 20 HP Sunstar

outdoors4evr
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu May 21, 2020 5:05 am

Gonna have to pull the shifter plate off and see what is going on.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

john2189
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Re: 154 ground speed

Postby john2189 » Fri May 22, 2020 9:25 am

Took the shifter off. The cup is broken off the shifter. The hole is all worn much bigger than the shifter. I don’t think it can be welded. Will look for a replacement
'49 Cub (Vince)
'72 cub (Cecilia)
'41 allis B
'42 Allis B
'71 154 Cub Lo-Boy
656 Wheel Horse
C-165 Wheel Horse
Simplicity 20 HP Sunstar


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