184 won't start

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Jim Becker
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:58 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:Agree with Eugene, time and effort to free up the offending valves beats having to remove the head and extract broken head bolts any day IMHO!!

When you are putting solvent on the valves, you might as will put some on the head bolts too. If you don't need to remove the head, it won't hurt anything.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:11 pm

Agreed, I will get some PB blaster and start the process. I’ll reply back with my findings as soon as I can, thanks guys.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby staninlowerAL » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:58 am

Eugene's advice on using a soda straw extension to reach the valves and a wooden dowel/hammer to tap on the top of the valves is a good suggestion. You might also be able to "wiggle" the valve stem with a needle nose locking pliers. It's not usually a quick fix IMHO, patience is the key.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:19 am

Thank you. I will try my darnedest to get the solvent on the valve stems and report back. I might have some time later today to start soaking them.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Sun May 03, 2020 6:24 pm

I’ve had good luck with the straw and PB blaster technique, getting it under the valves. So much so that it was running out of the intake. LOL. With the valve cover off it’s easy to see when the valves are at their lowest and highest points. When the Tappet Was at its lowest point I was able to get a .15 feeler gauge between it and it was a little snug .
I’ve done the lubricating technique for a few nights turning the engine and lubricating under each of the valves in the #1 and #2 cylinder. Today I did it a another time and took the small Dow and little hammer and gently tapped on each of the valves in cylinder one and two. They seem to be down flat and snug in the head/block. I thought I would attempt to check the compression again and found that cylinder one was up to 30 psi but cylinder two is still around 18 psi? What would be the next steps from this point on?
Thank you

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon May 04, 2020 5:54 am

30 psi is still not enough for those two cylinders to run. Since it won't run, remove the head and oil pan. While I think the issue is still in the valve train, I don't think I could resist removing the pistons and checking for broken compression rings.

Then the real problem happens. Since I am here... Maybe I should just measure the bore and replace the rings. And the rod bearings.. And the main bearings... oh boy.
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Jim Becker
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Jim Becker » Mon May 04, 2020 10:58 am

Was the compression test result from last evening a wet test? If not, I would redo the wet compression test on those 2 cylinders.

In any case, I think it is time to pull the head. But if the numbers are that low on a wet test, you may be able to stop at a valve job.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Mon May 04, 2020 7:32 pm

This was not a wet compression test but I can do that tomorrow at some point. I’ll let you know the results.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Eugene » Mon May 04, 2020 8:12 pm

I think the wet compression test is in order. Remove all spark plugs, ground out the coil spark wire, the crank the engine over several times before adding the oil. Just checking to see if some carbon on the valve seats is still partially hanging up a couple of valves.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Tue May 05, 2020 8:03 pm

Gotcha..
I read this earlier today and had time to mess with the 184 a little. I spun the engine over several times then added a tbsp of oil to each cylinder. Spun it over a couple times then performed the wet test again. This time I got 30 psi from cylinders 1 and 2, 175 from cylinder 3, and about 180 in from cylinder 4. I was hoping all the solvent would have gotten a better result if it did anything at all? I can try another week of solvent and hand turning the engine. Looking for guidance again at this point.. Thx

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Jim Becker » Tue May 05, 2020 8:17 pm

You have the tappet over off don't you? Just look at the individual valves as you crank it over with the starter. If any are sticking, you should be able to see a difference in how they move, or maybe put a finger on each one and feel for a difference. If they are moving close to normally, you have something more serious with the valves than just sticking.

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Re: 184 won't start

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed May 06, 2020 5:43 am

Well, you have eliminated the rings as an issue. Keep working on the valves. If you get frustrated, pull the head and remove the valves.
Clean out the valve guides with a bottle brush and a solvent like carb cleaner.
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Hipo giddyup
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Wed May 06, 2020 8:15 am

I don't see how a head gasket check would hurt at this point. If I have the valves down on cycl. 1, use a fitting to pump up that cylinder, I will check to see/hear if cyl. 2 leaks. Sounds reasonable?
Otherwise, I can continue to keep lubricating the valves if there are sticking.I will say that in their lowest position, it was tight, but I was able to get a .015 feeler between the tappet and valve stem. Would you think this would be more gap if they were sticking or does a sticking valve just need a minute distance to loose compression?

outdoors4evr
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed May 06, 2020 1:11 pm

At least one valve is not seating on your low compression cylinders. Either there is a foreign object keeping them from seating or the seats need cleaned up (ground). Remove the valve cover from the side of the engine (just lower it out of the way so you can see) You should be able to see each valve move up and down while the engine is being cranked. I'm guessing that a couple of them are not moving (just staying in a raised position).
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
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IH-54 Blade

Hipo giddyup
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Re: 184 won't start

Postby Hipo giddyup » Wed May 06, 2020 3:12 pm

I have had the valve cover off this eintire time (thats why I posted I could get a .015 feeler gauge between the tappet and valve stems. ) I guess the only sure thing at this point is to remove the head (get a new head gasket anyway), and then re-girnd the valves in Cyl 1 and 2. This is new territory for me so if anyone has good advice keep it coming. I have already soaked the head bolts and I have heard of using a 3/8" impact on them (I do have that). I have never performed a valve grind before so I will need the paste and suction cup tool correct? Actually let me look around, I might find this stuff in my Dads tool cabinet. A lot was auctioned off when he passed but tools were not included, I might get lucky instead of buying them.


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