184 Burning Engine Oil

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tucker86
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:36 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: International 184 w/ Woods 59LB Mower
Location: Midwest USA

Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby tucker86 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:27 pm

I got the 184 out this weekend and cut the grass after two weeks of growth. The grass was moderately heavy which put a fair bit of load on the motor. I ran it hard around 90% - 95% throttle. The initial difference I noticed was there was much less burnt oil smell coming from the exhaust. The motor seemed to run very well with plenty of power. The next day I checked the engine oil and to my surprise there was much less than normal missing! I pulled the #1 and #2 spark plugs and #1 was very clean which was expected. The #2 spark plug which is the cylinder which has been showing oil deposits on the plug had significantly cleaned up. I pulled the #2 spark plug last weekend while it was raining and discovered it looked similar to the picture I posted previously, so the improvement was during this weekends operation. A picture of the #2 spark plugs is below (note this is the spark plug the tractor came with when I got it and not the new set I posted pictures of previously).

I am going to continue the Seafoam treatment in the engine oil as it seems to be helping. Would it be recommended to continue the Seafoam treatment through the fuel once I burn through the current tank?

Image
1976 International 184
Woods LB59 Mower

outdoors4evr
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:50 am

That plug looks ideal. If all four plugs look the same, then I'd go back to normal oil without seafoam. Since you are using (or losing) some oil, perhaps try a thicker oil. Maybe straight 30 wt or a 15w40.

Regarding the fuel, feel free to continue the use of seafoam - or just choose to use plain old unleaded fuel.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

tucker86
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:36 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: International 184 w/ Woods 59LB Mower
Location: Midwest USA

Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby tucker86 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:25 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:That plug looks ideal. If all four plugs look the same, then I'd go back to normal oil without seafoam. Since you are using (or losing) some oil, perhaps try a thicker oil. Maybe straight 30 wt or a 15w40.

Regarding the fuel, feel free to continue the use of seafoam - or just choose to use plain old unleaded fuel.

I pulled the #1 plug as well which looked even cleaner than the #2 in the picture. I did not bother pulling the other two. Previously #1, #3, and #4 all looked clean and was only #2 that showed oil deposits.

I think I will leave the Seafoam in the oil and check the plugs again after I get through the current tank of fuel. I started with a full tank with Seafoam. I am currently running Shell Rotella T4 15w-40 which was getting burned. I have already purchased a gallon of Shell Rotella T1 straight 30wt that I was going to give a try next. BigBill had mentioned that he had some Cub Catets that would consume oil when using 10w-40, but not when running straight 30wt.
1976 International 184
Woods LB59 Mower

BigBill
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:12 pm

Add more seafoam to the fuel tank one more time.

The 30wt for the summer, 10/30, for the winter months if your snowplowing.

Note, if anyone uses a heavier weight oil like 30wt the engine bearings farthest from the oil pump will starve, go by the owners manual.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

Eugene
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby Eugene » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:26 pm

BigBill wrote:Note, if anyone uses a heavier weight oil like 30wt the engine bearings farthest from the oil pump will starve.
Please explain.

The oil filter and oil pressure gauge is at the end of the oil galeries. Got decent oil pressure, everything is lubricated.
I have an excuse. CRS.

BigBill
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:12 pm

In cold weather if the tractor is outside in the cold temps with 30wt oil the engine won’t be fully lubricated. Read your owners manual it gives us motor oil weights for temps.

Isn’t the pump and gauge at the rear of the engine block with the filter?

The gauge tells us it’s ok at the gauge but the rest of the lubricating system might not get any oil pressure. The farthest bearing from the oil pump will starve from oil. I wonder how many blew there engines here during outside storage during winter temps with 30 wt oil.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

BigBill
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:18 pm

Here’s the oil passages, the front bearings is last to get oil. Depending on the oil weight and outside temps if the oil freezes using heavy weight oil the bearings see no oil pressure till the oil warms up. In colder temps I use 5/30 or 10/30 motor oil in equipment stored outside.
I’ve used spotlight bulbs to heat oil pans or dipstick oil heaters with tarps covering the engine.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... e%2003.jpg
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

outdoors4evr
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:31 am

Separate the oil passages. One passage goes to the crank. A second passage goes to the filter.
The oil pressure is measured near the filter in the "second" passage.

Either way, once oil pressure is obtained, the system as a whole is being lubricated. \
Also agree that cold oil flows more slowly through the tight tolerance areas.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby Eugene » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:34 am

Eugene wrote:
BigBill wrote:Note, if anyone uses a heavier weight oil like 30wt the engine bearings farthest from the oil pump will starve.
Please explain.

The oil filter and oil pressure gauge is at the end of the oil galeries. Got decent oil pressure, everything is lubricated.
The Cub's lubrication system is a hydraulic system.
Pascal's law (also Pascal's principle or the principle of transmission of fluid-pressure) is a principle in fluid mechanics given by Blaise Pascal that states that a pressure change at any point in a confined incompressible fluid is transmitted throughout the fluid such that the same change occurs everywhere.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:02 pm

The winter classifications are determined as much by pour point temperature as anything. I doubt that it will have much effect on getting lubrication to the parts of the system under pressure. I expect more problems will be caused to the areas that get splash or spray lubrication, things like cam lobes, cylinder walls, timing gears, and governor.

BigBill
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:46 pm

I had a spin rod bearing in a engine because the PO used 30wt motor oil. The oil was plumbed through the filter first then into the engine block. The 30wt oil is no good in cold weather. The old time dealer told me to run a bypass line from the pump to the crankcase and use a light weight motor oil. If the oil is frozen it’s not flowing anywhere no oil no splash.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:07 pm

If the oil wasn't flowing anywhere, there would be immediate catastrophic damage, same as when somebody deadheads a hydraulic system.

By the way, just because there is no low temperature spec or test for SAE 20 and up, doesn't mean it turns into a block of ice at 32 degrees. Kendall Super-D Diesel engine oil in SAE 30 has a pour point of -27F. Pennzoil lists -30C, which isn't quite as low. Others are probably similar.

BigBill
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:55 pm

If the gauge at the rear of the block shows oil pressure, the furthest front main and rod bearing might not have oil pressure if the wrong weight oil is used in the winter. Go by the IH owners manual. If the tractor is left outside the game changes. That front bearing goes first. I know some guys in the past here had that happen but they won’t chime in.

When planning a trip let’s say north, I had 20/50 wt oil in my truck. During thanksgiving weekend the temps dropped and we had three days of snow. When I went to leave my truck sounded like a 6 volt grunting. I was in my early twenties I should of known better.

A 20/50 oil is a 20wt cold, with a lubricating quality of a 50wt oil when it’s hot.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

tucker86
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:36 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: International 184 w/ Woods 59LB Mower
Location: Midwest USA

Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby tucker86 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:35 am

The weather recently has been pretty dry in my area so I have not had a chance to run the tractor much. I ran the tractor hard last weekend up in the 90% - 95% throttle range for about 1.5 hours while mowing my grass. The tractor sat for two weeks prior to running it and I had topped off the oil with the last of my Shell Rotella T4 15w40 which is what the tractor is currently running along with the Seafoam additive in the oil and fuel per BigBill's recommended procedure. The tractor again seemed to run very well and the exhaust is still smelling cleaner than before starting Seafoam.

The tractor seemed to noticeably burn more oil this time than the previous time I had mowed and towards the end of the run I was seeing some blue exhaust. The first two pictures are of the oil level before and after which show quite a bit of oil loss. The third picture shows the #1 (left) and #2 (right) spark plugs and they are staying clean. Is it possible that I am still getting significant oil burn in the #2 cylinder, but the Seafoam in the fuel is keeping the plug clean? I was planning to do an oil change to straight grade Shell Rotella 30 weight once I finish burning the the fuel with the Seafoam additive.

Additionally, the tractor sat two weeks this time where previously when I thought I saw improvement it had only sat for one week. Is it possible the longer time sitting could have negatively impacted the piston and oil ring performance?

Image

Image

Image
1976 International 184
Woods LB59 Mower

BigBill
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Posts: 7243
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Re: 184 Burning Engine Oil

Postby BigBill » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:14 pm

Let us know how the 30wt works. Plugs look better. I did notice seafoam May foul plugs. But the end result in gains is much better than before I started using seafoam.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.


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