New guy with new to me 154

IH CUB Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Lo-Boy related issues.

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Ike
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Ike » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:39 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
Ike wrote:. . .
I'm no expert, but I believe the generator field winding needs power from the battery to create a magnetic field. When you disconnect the battery, the magnetic field collapses and the generator stops producing electricity. . . .

No. The field winding gets electricity straight from the generator itself. There is no electrical connection between the battery and any part of the generator until the generator spins up fast enough to produce enough voltage to close the cut-out points. When the points close, they connect the GEN and BAT terminals of the cut-out/regulator.


Like I said, I'm no expert. :) I stand corrected!
Ike

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:25 am

Eugene wrote:Clean up all battery and cable terminals. Move the battery ground cable from the sheet metal to the transmission/differential. Because the 154's battery ground is the sheet metal which gets corroded.


I've been working on that little by little. Someone already put a new ground cable on it NEAR the transmission where the seat frame mounts to it. I'll do some more cleaning/digging with the wiring.

Jim Becker wrote:
Ike wrote:. . .
I'm no expert, but I believe the generator field winding needs power from the battery to create a magnetic field. When you disconnect the battery, the magnetic field collapses and the generator stops producing electricity. . . .

No. The field winding gets electricity straight from the generator itself. There is no electrical connection between the battery and any part of the generator until the generator spins up fast enough to produce enough voltage to close the cut-out points. When the points close, they connect the GEN and BAT terminals of the cut-out/regulator.


That could be PART of my problem. How fast does it need to spin up before it starts charging? I don't recall if I said it or not but I was reading zero volts between Field and ground with my digital voltmeter with the engine running and around 1.5v on the A wire where power is applied to start the tractor.

Glen wrote:Hi,
Below is the Cub LoBoy 154 operator's manual. It has lots of info. The experts on here recommend people read the operator's manual.
There is a table of contents on page 1.
The index begins on page 58.
The lubrication section begins on page 46.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Below is the Cub LoBoy 154 parts manual. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html


Thanks Glen! I found those yesterday and have been slowly digging through them!

Eugene
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Eugene » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:00 am

chillman88 wrote:Someone already put a new ground cable on it NEAR the transmission where the seat frame mounts to it.
Not near. Bolt the battery ground cable directly on/to the transmission.
How fast does it need to spin up before it starts charging?
About 1/2 throttle on my 154. At low idle the amp gauge shows a slight discharge.

Since your starter/generator cranks over the engine and the engine runs - - your no charge problem is probably the voltage regulator.

Service manual has the wiring diagrams for the tractor. The wiring diagrams are also on line, internet search.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:45 am

Eugene wrote:
chillman88 wrote:Someone already put a new ground cable on it NEAR the transmission where the seat frame mounts to it.
Not near. Bolt the battery ground cable directly on/to the transmission.
How fast does it need to spin up before it starts charging?
About 1/2 throttle on my 154. At low idle the amp gauge shows a slight discharge.

Since your starter/generator cranks over the engine and the engine runs - - your no charge problem is probably the voltage regulator.

Service manual has the wiring diagrams for the tractor. The wiring diagrams are also on line, internet search.


Alright I'll move the ground then. Wasn't sure if it was good enough or not.

I have the wiring diagrams. I've been working on that, the battery charge wire wasn't even there at all when I got the tractor.

Jim Becker
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:09 pm

chillman88 wrote:That could be PART of my problem. How fast does it need to spin up before it starts charging? I don't recall if I said it or not but I was reading zero volts between Field and ground with my digital voltmeter with the engine running and around 1.5v on the A wire where power is applied to start the tractor.

It should read 0 volts from the generator "F" and ground. When the engine isn't running and until the voltage at "A" is way up into the area needed for charging the battery, the generator "F" should be grounded through the voltage regulator. Since your generator seems to be good, I wonder if your "F" is not grounded, which would be either a failure in the voltage regulator or in how the regulator is grounded. Try adding a jumper wire from the generator "F" directly to a good ground. The generator should start charging at the maximum rate. You should be able to see this by checking voltage at "A".

Edit to add:
Be aware that cheap digital meters are usually not trustworthy on our older tractors. The old ignition and charging systems produce noise that interferes with them. Here is a recent thread on test meters.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108146

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:06 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
chillman88 wrote:That could be PART of my problem. How fast does it need to spin up before it starts charging? I don't recall if I said it or not but I was reading zero volts between Field and ground with my digital voltmeter with the engine running and around 1.5v on the A wire where power is applied to start the tractor.

It should read 0 volts from the generator "F" and ground. When the engine isn't running and until the voltage at "A" is way up into the area needed for charging the battery, the generator "F" should be grounded through the voltage regulator. Since your generator seems to be good, I wonder if your "F" is not grounded, which would be either a failure in the voltage regulator or in how the regulator is grounded. Try adding a jumper wire from the generator "F" directly to a good ground. The generator should start charging at the maximum rate. You should be able to see this by checking voltage at "A".

Edit to add:
Be aware that cheap digital meters are usually not trustworthy on our older tractors. The old ignition and charging systems produce noise that interferes with them. Here is a recent thread on test meters.
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 1&t=108146



Thanks, my new regulator should be here by Friday from Hamiltonbobs. This particular multimeter isn't trustworthy anyway, but thank you for the thread reference. I've been meaning to get a better one but I've got so much stuff on my "gonna" list that most of it doesn't get done anyway haha.

I've got an analog meter here somewhere, darned if I can find it....

EDIT: This DVM was bouncing all over the place on the "bat" terminal of the generator. I'm assuming that's what you were referring to by noise?

Jim Becker
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:49 pm

chillman88 wrote:[. . . EDIT: This DVM was bouncing all over the place on the "bat" terminal of the generator. I'm assuming that's what you were referring to by noise?

Exactly. Electrical noise broadcast by the tractor electrical components interfere with the electronics in the meter.

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:25 pm

Well the new regulator is on and it seems to be trying to charge. Intermittently getting 13.5v but not steady. Going to clean up a couple more connections and let it run for a bit tomorrow and see what it does. I'll be putting new points and condenser in too.

Eugene
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Eugene » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:41 pm

chillman88 wrote:Well the new regulator is on and it seems to be trying to charge. Intermittently getting 13.5v but not steady.
Using an analog (needle) meter?

The meter reading will probably not be rock steady,
I have an excuse. CRS.

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:12 pm

Eugene wrote:
chillman88 wrote:Well the new regulator is on and it seems to be trying to charge. Intermittently getting 13.5v but not steady.
Using an analog (needle) meter?

The meter reading will probably not be rock steady,


I have not yet picked up an analog meter. I'm going to look around a little bit more because I know there's one here somewhere.

The digital one wasn't bouncing near as much as before.

Eugene
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Eugene » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:38 pm

Amazon has one for $9.93.
I have an excuse. CRS.

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:48 pm

Well I'm certainly no expert but I'm pretty sure that was my charging issue! :{_}:

IMG_20200814_133012484_640x480.jpg

IMG_20200814_133041476_640x480.jpg

IMG_20200814_151545363_640x480.jpg


Now I just need to figure out why it's surging when it warms up. I'm going to toss my new points and condenser on for now. Then if that doesn't work I'll toss a new coil at it, even if it doesn't fix it I'll know it's good that way.

Eugene
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby Eugene » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:39 am

chillman88 wrote:Now I just need to figure out why it's surging when it warms up.
Two possible causes of surging.
(1) Adjust linkage from governor arm, left side of engine, to carburetor.
(2) Low fuel flow.

More than likely the linkage adjustment.
I have an excuse. CRS.

chillman88
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Re: New guy with new to me 154

Postby chillman88 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:50 pm

Well I put a new coil and plug wires on this morning, and a fresh set of points/condenser and it's been running like a top all day and pulling stuff around here helping me clean up! Hasn't surged at all either, but I did clean the main jet again last night. :{_}:

Doesn't like to move until it's had warm up time, but I'm pretty sure the engine is tired too. Got iffy cold dry compression readings when I first got it, figured I'd run it for a while and help everything loosen up before worrying about it too much.

It's running good enough that I won't feel guilty buying all new fluids for it and putting a little bit of money into it now. Nothing major, but I have a knack for getting in too deep before I realize how bad something actually is :roll:

Thanks to everyone for all the help!!


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