New to me 184 with trans issues

IH CUB Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Lo-Boy related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:42 pm

I brought home a non-runner 1977 LoBoy 184 with creeper, 3-pt, and mower deck today. It has been sitting outdoors for several years. The fuse holder for the ignition circuit is broken, so I bumped the starter with my jump starter pack and it fired right up and ran perfectly. I quickly shut it down and drained all the old/chunky gas and flushed the tank. With fresh gas, it runs very nicely.

Unfortunately, there is something wrong in the transmission and it won't go no matter what gear it is in or in high or low. The input shaft is spinning when I let the clutch out. With the engine off and tractor in gear, I can see the input shaft drag a little when I roll it, so I'm expecting to find a broken shaft key or shear pin in the trans. I haven't exhaustively searched the forum about this yet, but any insight would be appreciated. I have two older Cubs, but this is my first time getting handsy with a number series.

Jim
Last edited by Urbish on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jim

Circle of Safety

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:52 pm

I should add that the creeper shifter feels kind of sloppy and I'm wondering of something grenaded in there. I plan to pull the sheetmetal so I can take the top cover off and see what is going on in there.
Jim

Circle of Safety

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:05 am

If you have ruled out the driveshaft keys,
Start with the creeper. It is likely "between gears" and will probably need the shift fork mechanism serviced.

Second thought, it might be easier to remove the shifter so that you can see in the transmission. That would tell you if the input shaft to the transmission is turning or not. That would at least tell you if you are going to be working on the creeper or the transmission.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:44 am

outdoors4evr wrote:If you have ruled out the driveshaft keys,
Start with the creeper. It is likely "between gears" and will probably need the shift fork mechanism serviced.

Second thought, it might be easier to remove the shifter so that you can see in the transmission. That would tell you if the input shaft to the transmission is turning or not. That would at least tell you if you are going to be working on the creeper or the transmission.


Thanks for that. I suspect the creeper as well (maybe one of the roll pins that links things together). But once I have it apart enough to get the creeper out, I might as well have a look in the trans too. The creeper definitely needs a new input bearing as there is a bit of slop where the shaft enters it. I can take my time on this one so I will be as thorough as I can be.
Jim

Circle of Safety

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:40 am

outdoors4evr wrote:If you have ruled out the driveshaft keys,
Start with the creeper. It is likely "between gears" and will probably need the shift fork mechanism serviced.

Second thought, it might be easier to remove the shifter so that you can see in the transmission. That would tell you if the input shaft to the transmission is turning or not. That would at least tell you if you are going to be working on the creeper or the transmission.


Also, I did some reading and saw an old post from you that indicated the U-joint can be loosened and slid forward, freeing it from the creeper input, allowing the creeper to be removed for inspection/service without having to pull the rear end out of the tractor. Did I get that right?
Jim

Circle of Safety

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 18621
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Eugene » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 am

When the creeper on my 154 locked up, I slid the rear end out of the frame.

Everything easy to get to. Fixed the creeper, checked the brakes and transmission, serviced the final drives.
I have an excuse. CRS.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:05 pm

On the 184, you can get the creeper out through the tunnel without removing the transmission and rear end.
It is easier to do this from underneath the tractor.
Don't forget to change the oil in the creeper before you put it back in. It is REALLY hard to change this oil while installed.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:07 pm

Thanks guys. I'll tackle this as soon as it cools off enough to spend more than 30 minutes at a time in the shop.
Jim

Circle of Safety

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:25 pm

I pulled the creeper this evening. Took all of 30 minutes with only the tunnel cover removed. Bone dry inside. Bronze pilot bushing is toast. Roll pin for the splined coupling to trans input shaft was broken, thus the no go condition. I will tear down and rebuild the creeper and should be good to go!
Last edited by Urbish on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim

Circle of Safety

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:59 am

NICE!!!!! That sounds like a workable fix!
Steel Coiled Spring Pins are stronger and last longer than roll pins. Scroll down this page about 1/2 way for a good picture and listing of sizes.
https://www.grainger.com/category/faste ... pring-pins

There are a few implements that use these as shear pins as well. I ran into them on the model 50 snowthrower and the model 15 tiller.

Since there wasn't any fluid in there, it might be worthwhile to fill it with oil and let it set on the table for a few days to see if the seals leak. (or just change the seals)
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:22 am

I spoke too soon. The inside of the creeper had an pile of crud at the bottom. I completely disassembled the unit as the input shaft bearing was also toast and the planetary gears looked pretty sloppy. I flipped the planetary gears over to show how much wear there is on their bores. So this unit needs a complete rebuild including new bronze bushings all around and replacement planetary gears/carrier. I can't imagine what a terrible racket this thing must have been making while operated like this. I have already priced everything out through Hamilton Bob's. I was hoping to find a $4 repair vs. a $300+ repair. Ooof...
Attachments
Creeper 1.JPG
Creeper 2.JPG
Creeper 3.JPG
Creeper 4.JPG
Jim

Circle of Safety

BigBill
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 7243
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Location: in northern usa

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby BigBill » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:29 pm

Add some moly gear oil in the creeper.

http://www.tsmoly.com

https://www.tsmoly.com/oils-c-11.html?o ... 37ec1ae41f

Eliminate wear, reduces friction, prevents galling.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

outdoors4evr
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Zip Code: 48370
Tractors Owned: 184
Location: Oxford, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:45 am

Oh My! That's a lot of wear on those planetary gears and axles!
Forget the "what oil is the best" discussion, this is a comparison of Oil vs no Oil!
Anything oil-like would have been better than this! Looks like it is all new guts for this creeper.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

User avatar
Urbish
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2143
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1958 International Cub LoBoy
1948 Farmall Cub
1977 International LoBoy 184
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Cub Loboy L-54 Leveling and Grader Blade
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby Urbish » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:18 am

outdoors4evr wrote:Oh My! That's a lot of wear on those planetary gears and axles!
Forget the "what oil is the best" discussion, this is a comparison of Oil vs no Oil!
Anything oil-like would have been better than this! Looks like it is all new guts for this creeper.


I makes me wonder what other maintenance/checks were overlooked on this tractor. :shock:
Jim

Circle of Safety

BigBill
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 7243
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Location: in northern usa

Re: New to me 184 with trans issues

Postby BigBill » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:58 pm

What maintenance? No maintenance is done on most tractors. We buy them after the PO runs them in the ground. Oil change what’s that?

I purchased a cub cadet 1000 the dealer said it ran. The connecting rod was broken, clutch was shot with throughout brg. It ran right. When I took off the oil pan it was like your creeper no oil. My fault but I haggled the price leaving room for repairs. Figuring I have a garage full of parts.

Anything used we expect repairs after a complete inspection.

One 154 needed a hyd oil / filter change the oil was white(water). Since the water settles at the bottom of the tranny when cold I got the water out first then the oil followed. Luckily the bottom of the tranny had a drain plug.

The other 154 creeper needed a drive shaft and clutch. The splines in the shaft were almost gone.

My second 154 is my build.

Like I said expect repairs. These are awesome machines, easy to fix. The PO ran them hard.

Grease gun what’s that? Ever notice the rocker shafts are dry?

We’re lucky we have hamiltonbobscubs.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest