Override from generator terminal to battery

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Sflash
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Zip Code: 12831

Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Sflash » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Here’s a scenario to ponder:

Imagine you were just given a Cub Lo-Boy 154 (S#36445). The previous owner (a true farmer, god bless him) passed 25 years ago and the tractors been sitting in the barn about as long. You have no information any maintenance records. While going through restoration steps you see that every part, filter, everything still has the IH stamp on it. So, possibly, all original parts. Probly not likely for the filters. Things like the carb and distb cap have signs that theyve been pried open before. So maintenance has been performed but in definitive as to how well it was maintained (the air filter certainly seemed as tho it was the original).

That gives ya somewhat of an idea of the previous owners level of care for the machine. Now imagine the possitive terminal on the battery is all chewed up and scored from sparking. There is also a white (14 gauge 15amp?) electrical wire wrapped around the A terminal on the generator and the other end is all burnt up laying next to the battery. Now, the tractor doesnt turn over. After a new battery, the oil light will come in Run. The generator will move the belts when the white electric line is touched off to the positive terminal.

So my question in this scenario is why the white electric line? How many different possible parts or steps to the staring system could the farmer have been using that cord to bypass? Id like to get the machine to start properly. Im just trying to narrow down the possible issues before I go buying ignition and safety switches or coils etc.

Also, what battery are most of you using? I couldnt find any info about suggested amp hours (AH) or CCA

Anybody on here around the Saratoga Springs area?

Many thanks

Fyi this is my first tractor and attempt at a restoration (salvage might be a more appropriate word for what I will be doing). I have the Op and Workshop Manuals and Parts catalog. It was my grandfathers and it was my cherished memories spent working with him that influenced the development of my farm tough work ethic and ambition. I am now a Municipal Forester and I still operate plenty of machinery. But these new machines are with their computers and sensors are much different than the Lo-Boy. Plus our team of mechanics dont like us turning wrenches on our machinery. In other words, it is very important to me that I successfully get this puppy up n runnin. The motivation is there, I just need direction.

Eugene
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Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Eugene » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:54 pm

I don't know the white wire answer. One thing, the battery grounds to the sheet metal, poor ground. Move the battery ground to the transmission case. Thinking that the battery ground is a portion of the problem. Clean up all battery terminals and connections.

There is a solenoid in the start circuit. White wire could be to bypass it.

Cranking over the engine with the starter/generator will take require 100 amps give or take.

Top left of this page, Quick links has free manuals. The service manual has the wiring diagram.

Don't buy any parts until you diagnose the problem. Local auto parts store for a lot of tune up and maintenance parts.

Couple of very first things to do before attempting to start engine. See if the engine turns over by hand - use fan. Prime the oil pump
I have an excuse. CRS.

Jim Becker
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Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:46 pm

The burnt battery terminal and matching end on the nearby white wire tells me the wire was put there to run the starter, exactly as you did. Doing this bypasses not only the solenoid but also about 3 switches and several wires required to operate the solenoid. The starting circuit could be failing due to any one or several of them. I suggest you start with the wiring diagram and work your way through it to find the problem(s). The first thing I would try is using a jumper wire to put power to the solenoid to see if it and the heavy cables are all OK.

I believe there is a "start" contact in the ignition switch and 2 safety switches on the clutch and PTO. All have to work or be bypassed for the solenoid to activate.

Eugene
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Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Eugene » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:07 pm

There is a start safety switch at the oil filter housing, called oil pressure switch in the wiring diagram. It's part of the ignition system. The engine will crank but this switch will not let the engine start, the ignition system fire, until the oil pressure is up.

Just checked my service manual's wiring diagram. Depending on when, just says late model, all of the switches Jim mentioned may or may not be on the tractor and there is a good possibilty some were bypassed or open.

Kind of an edit. The parts manual does not list the bench test amps for the starter/generator.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Sflash
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:40 am
Zip Code: 12831

Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Sflash » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:34 pm

So the ground wire is in rough shape. Ill take that off and Ill clean up the connection of all rust and maybe even replace the bolt so theres a good connection. The battery is new so that terminals all set. Hopefully that will get her to crank. I will have to prime the pump and make sure the oil is filled so the oil light goes off. If it doesnt then i will replace the oil pressure/safety switch. Then the ignition switch and then replace the ignition coil next if need be. I rebuilt the distributor already. I may need to replace the spark plug wires and make sure theyre in the correct firing order (already replaced the spark plugs). If it still wont crank then i will clean up all of the electrical connections and begin replacing those parts as I go until she starts, hopefully.

Thanks gents

A/C guy
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Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby A/C guy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:24 pm

The other grounding issue I found is the starter motor/generator is grounded through the mounting bracket to the engine. Corrosion where the mounting bracket pivots causes a high voltage drop under high current (starting) load. I ran a piece of heavy gage wire from the generator body to the engine block. I improved starting and charging.

Duner
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Re: Override from generator terminal to battery

Postby Duner » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:23 am

I ran a ground wire like you and it does good for starting. My battery is a U1 from a lawn mower.


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