Electrical problem on Cub Lo-Boy 154 - *solved, that was EZ*

[Bigdog]

888 - go ahead and try it! I believe you have solved your problem.

[888]

Well guys, after installing the replacement starter etc we have partial turning over very slowly but no firing. That is much better than nothing at all. It seems that the starter doesn't have enough oomph to turn the engine over continuously. It will go a stroke, labor for 10 seconds, go another stroke, etc etc. When I first turn the key, I might get two strokes. I matchmarked the drive belt where I can see it from the seat and it's not slipping.

No significant draw on a meter across the battery terminals so that's good I guess. Neg battery cable connection was pretty warm but its 95 here anyway so that doesn't help.

I checked the engine after installing the new starter and it turns real easily by hand.

I didn't want to burn up the starter so I stopped. Plus the kids launched a pillow into the ceiling fan so I had to stop for a discussion of that little episode and now I have to make some inside repairs....

We are getting farther anyway, wanted to let you know! Any suggestions/comments abuse is always welcome.

[888]

...and I just couldn't leave it alone after putting the ceiling fan back together.

I turned it over by hand a few times via the crank pulley and turned the key and it cranked like crazy (after I stomped the clutch pedal into the ground). But it still won't turn over. I've tried full choke, full throttle, air filter/no air filter and every combination of the above.

I have a small gas leak at the glass bowl below the tank and another after the carb by the air filter inlet hose so gravity is still in effect today. The drip by the carb makes me wonder. ...

I pulled number one plug and it was dry and unfouled with gas, looked relatively normal color wise based on what I would expect from a car. Given the amount of cranking without firing I would expect it to be on the wet gassy side. I didn't think to sniff the oil while I was out there to see if I had gas in the crankcase. Seeing as how this thing sat all winter, should the carb come off and be dunked in solvent and blown out? I'm thinking the gas isn't getting through the carb.

What do you guys think? How hard are they to start for you all after they sit for the winter (outside, I should add).

Thanks as always, you guys are a great help.

[Bigdog]

Clean and or re-build the carb. Also, can you verify that you have spark?
Have you tried spraying some starting fluid into the carb air intake? (remove the rubber hose and spray at the carb - not through the air cleaner) If it tries to fire then you'll know you have a fuel supply issue.

[888]

Good morning BD! I don't have anyone to help me with the starting fluid, I'll have to recruit someone. I don't even have any because I usually work on diesels but it is no problem to get some.

I did not yet look at the spark because I don't have anyone to help me with that one either. I did remove, clean, and reconnect every electrical connection to the coil and everything else up there during my electrical problems, I was hoping that helped.

I am pretty well convinced that I'm not getting gas so I was going to try to deal with that first. The plugs are dirt brown and dry with only the very faintest smell of gas even though I am leaking out of the bottom of the carb. I assume this carb is jetted somehow and maybe some debris from the tank or bowl clogged the jet??? The tank was dry, obviously because of the leaks.

The carb looks pretty simple, I was thinking of removing it and submerging it in some clean solvent and blowing it out good. Think that would work?

I could rebuild it if it gets stubborn. The glass bowl apparatus under the tank looks pretty funky too so that should come off too.

I'm just excited that it turns over and tries to start now, it was too much to expect that it would fire right up but I was hoping.

That clutch switch is a bear, the pedal really needs to be hammered on to allow it to start. I see now why it was jumped out.

thanks for the reply.

Joe

[Matt Kirsch]

Have you checked for spark? I see you pulled the plug, but did you try that trick your dad/uncle/grampa/neighbor taught you on how to check for spark on a push mower/rototiller/snowblower when it wouldn't start?

Take the removed plug, stick it back in the wire, and lay it against the engine block. Crank the engine over, watch the plug and take note of what happens. No spark? No wonder it won't start! Weak orange spark? It might start, but something's wrong. Bright blue spark? You've got a carburetor problem.

[Bigdog]

888 if you have the IH carb, the main jet is the brass hex nut on the side of the carb. Remove it and clean it out with a small wire. Also, take the time to remove the distributor cap and clean / de-glaze the points.

[888]

Have you checked for spark? I see you pulled the plug, but did you try that trick your dad/uncle/grampa/neighbor taught you on how to check for spark on a push mower/rototiller/snowblower when it wouldn't start?

Take the removed plug, stick it back in the wire, and lay it against the engine block. Crank the engine over, watch the plug and take note of what happens. No spark? No wonder it won't start! Weak orange spark? It might start, but something's wrong. Bright blue spark? You've got a carburetor problem.

Thanks for the reply Matt. I pulled the plug last night to see if it was gas fouled, no other reason. I know the spark test but I can't see the plug well enough from the drivers seat while cranking and I don't have anyone to help me.

No gas at that #1 plug when I pulled it suggested that I needed to fix the gas problem first, it should have been dripping after the cranking I had done with the choke pulled and the throttle wide open. Nothing I did with either the choke or throttle seemed to affect the tone of the engine and I think it should have. I can do the carb work by myself and if that doesn't help I'll try to recruit a neighbor to do the spark test or try to wait till dark and see if I can do it without help.

[888]

888 if you have the IH carb, the main jet is the brass hex nut on the side of the carb. Remove it and clean it out with a small wire. Also, take the time to remove the distributor cap and clean / de-glaze the points.

Thanks for the info BD. Not sure what kind of carb I have but it will come apart and get cleaned as you suggest. I've still got a points file somewhere if I can find it, I'll check the points. Been a long time since I worked on something with points. I might still have a dwell meter somewhere.....

[888]

Crap. It didn't start after a good soaking in Berryman Chem Dip and blowing out of the carb and jet, phone wire through the jet orifacce. Still no sign of gas on the plugs, no spark from the plug when laid on the manifold. guess it's off for another coil after some testing.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am. I thought I had everything figured out and tonight was the night the cub would come to life.

[Eugene]

Wait. Before throwing parts at the Cub. Trouble shoot the problem(s).

Did you do a compression test on this Cub?

Take the Cub to one of the Cubfests. Have the guys look it over. At this point I think I'm just spinning my wheels and will need some hands on help.

Eugene

[888]

Thanks for the reply Eugene. The compression should be good, I know for a fact it ran fine last fall before parked and the compression was good enough to hold it on the trailer on an incline when I picked it up. I have a compression tester to verify the exact values if required.

Today's another day, I was just very certain that the carb was the problem and I was looking forward to having this behind me and spending time on some other things today. It's such a simple machine and it's crazy I'm having so much trouble with it.

I'll go through the cap and points to be sure they are ok and get some starting fluid.

I don't have a trailer or any way to take this thing anywhere, I'll need to solve the problem here where it sits in the front 40. Back to it, I guess.

[Don McCombs]

888,

If you haven't already done so, I would recommend splitting the carb and running the wire through ALL the orifices, including main jet, needle seat, discharge nozzle, idle tube, air bleed, idle screw, etc. There may be dirt and/or deposits in areas other than the main jet. After you work things over with the wire, clear all the passages with a spray carb/choke cleaner using the little tube in the spray head. You can clean the fuel inlet screen pretty well by removing the needle seat and spraying opposite the direction of fuel flow through the screen. Then blow everything out with compressed air. Hope this helps.

[Eugene]

Sometimes I get frustrated with a problem that I can't resolve. I just walk away from it for a while.

Timing light. Put you timing light on one of the plug wires. You can sit on the tractor seat and see if the ignition is firing.

Dwell meter. The Cubs RPMs are low enough that you don't need one to time the Cub. Just make sure the points are set properly and in good condition.

I have the feeling that the problem is something minor that we are over looking.

Eugene

[888]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I opened the cap, removed the rotor, and made sure the points were opening with the dist lobe. They look decent but I found my points file and I'm looking up the gap now. I'll try to find my timing light, I've been driving diesels so much I don't know where it is.

I did soak the carb for a few hours submerged in Chem Dip and blew it out with the compressor air gun after removing the jet. I followed that with a good bath in carb cleaner on the outside. I can take it apart again and do more wire work, I didn't split it and do anything else because I don't have new gaskets.

The carb continues to drip gas from the bottom when installed, is that normal? It was still dripping this morning.

I agree it's probably something simple but I'm proving to be more simple than this simple problem so far. I've walked away from this one a lot, usually walked into the garage toward the beer cooler and came back to sit down and stare at the Cub. It's winning the staredowns, too.

I got a can of starter fluid uptown, if I can find someone to turn the key for me, I'll try that after doing the points.

One other question....the clear bowl below the tank leaks too. I tried to remove that last night while the carb was off and I couldn't get it off. It's really dark and dirty under there, is there a hex on the top fitting to unscrew that assembly from the tank? I couldn't get any wrench I have to fit on it, I assumed that's how it comes off, is that correct? I'd rather not break it, it looks expensive.

thanks guys