Electrical problem on Cub Lo-Boy 154 - *solved, that was EZ*

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Postby George Willer » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:04 am

If you've blown it out with air without splitting it you've probably smashed the float. :( It's time to do a full rebuild on the carburetor. I'd suggest opening it up before you order the real IH kit to be sure you won't also have to replace the float.

If the rebuild is done correctly there shouldn't be any drip. Remember there are several places in addition to the float needle that need attention to stop the leaking.

Read all of this article carefully to get an understanding of how to proceed::

Lurker Carl's Carb Fixes
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Postby Rudi » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:30 am

888 wrote:

One other question....the clear bowl below the tank leaks too. I tried to remove that last night while the carb was off and I couldn't get it off. It's really dark and dirty under there, is there a hex on the top fitting to unscrew that assembly from the tank? I couldn't get any wrench I have to fit on it, I assumed that's how it comes off, is that correct? I'd rather not break it, it looks expensive.

thanks guys


888:

If you look at the Fuel Bowl Assembly Cap, you will see that there is a hexagonal fixture on the top to allow for a wrench. I think it is either 9/16" or 3/4"..... but don't quote me on it. Take it easy.. it is just pot metal

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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:39 am

George Willer wrote:If you've blown it out with air without splitting it you've probably smashed the float. :( It's time to do a full rebuild on the carburetor. I'd suggest opening it up before you order the real IH kit to be sure you won't also have to replace the float.

If the rebuild is done correctly there shouldn't be any drip. Remember there are several places in addition to the float needle that need attention to stop the leaking.

Read all of this article carefully to get an understanding of how to proceed::

Lurker Carl's Carb Fixes


Great. Now I find this out. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. So much for getting this thing running today I guess.
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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:47 am

Rudi wrote:
888 wrote:

One other question....the clear bowl below the tank leaks too. I tried to remove that last night while the carb was off and I couldn't get it off. It's really dark and dirty under there, is there a hex on the top fitting to unscrew that assembly from the tank? I couldn't get any wrench I have to fit on it, I assumed that's how it comes off, is that correct? I'd rather not break it, it looks expensive.

thanks guys


888:

If you look at the Fuel Bowl Assembly Cap, you will see that there is a hexagonal fixture on the top to allow for a wrench. I think it is either 9/16" or 3/4"..... but don't quote me on it. Take it easy.. it is just pot metal

Image


Thanks Rudi. I'm thinking that the entire upper assembly (between 1 and 2) should back out but I'm not one to force it because it looks cheesy and old. I'll look again and proceed with care.

It sounds like I'm rebuilding the carb now since I blew up the float so I guess today would be the day to break it so I just order everything at once. :roll:
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Postby Rudi » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:59 am

888:

888 wrote:
Thanks Rudi. I'm thinking that the entire upper assembly (between 1 and 2) should back out but I'm not one to force it because it looks cheesy and old. I'll look again and proceed with care.

It sounds like I'm rebuilding the carb now since I blew up the float so I guess today would be the day to break it so I just order everything at once. :roll:


Take care with it and it should be ok. Spray some Kroil or Solvo-Rust or any really good Penetrating oil to lube the threads. It will come out easier... been there, done that, thought I broke it :shock: :!: :( thankfully I didn't :D

Yup, just order everything at once. You will find that ordering a complete new Fuel Sediment Bowl Assembly is probably cheaper than ordering the gaskets and screen.. for me it was by about $5.00... go figure.. who knew huh :?: :shock: :!: Get the IH Kit nothing less then follow the tips in Lurker Carl's Carb Fixes series of articles. They will help and also the Fuel Bowl tips are there as well.

888, I am finally going to take the bull by the horns here, and I am using your previous post as an example.. ok.. strictly an example. IT is not meant in any other manner EXCEPT as a tool to pass on a bit of information. It is a point that has become increasingly evident over the past year especially, and I need to find out why.. and how to change or fix it.

Please bear the above in mind ok??? Thanks



888 wrote:
George Willer wrote:If you've blown it out with air without splitting it you've probably smashed the float. :( It's time to do a full rebuild on the carburetor. I'd suggest opening it up before you order the real IH kit to be sure you won't also have to replace the float.

If the rebuild is done correctly there shouldn't be any drip. Remember there are several places in addition to the float needle that need attention to stop the leaking.

Read all of this article carefully to get an understanding of how to proceed::

Lurker Carl's Carb Fixes


Great. Now I find this out. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. So much for getting this thing running today I guess.


Not to be a smart ass or anything... but :idea: :roll: :D Now I find this out. -- :?: The information has been available for years in the Welcome Wagon which every new member gets as soon as I see their post. It is meant to be copied into a Word Processor such as MS Word and then saved to your desktop where the active links will be preserved and make your hunt for information much easier.

One of the reasons why I wrote the Welcome Wagon was to provide exactly that kind of information prior to taking it apart.... :idea: :idea: :!: Unfortunately it seems, is that maybe it is too long.. or maybe there is too much info :?: :?: I am not sure why, but a lot of the information we just have to keep reposting... is no one reading the Welcome Wagon.. :idea: :?: or are they just skipping it because it seems to be a lot at once :?: Do I need to stop using it :?: :shock: :? Does it have to be changed? Also for the above point, that is why also in the Welcome Wagon, and at the top of the Forum Index, there is a the Site Rules, Regulations, & Important Information Forum where all of this information such as New Members and Visitors, Please READ Prior to Posting stickies that are meant to help you with finding the information that you need. All kinds of active links there to point everyone to the info they need.

With over 3,000 members, it is getting difficult to re-post all of that information. We try to help, but the information has to be accessed. That is why, I suggest in the Welcome Wagon - to grab a cup of coffee or other favourite libation, pull up a comfy chair and have a read......

Any suggestions that would make disseminating this vast library of information to new members would be rather useful. I am trying, but obviously something is not working and I am at a huge loss to understand it.
Last edited by Rudi on Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:00 am

I cleaned up the cap and rotor with some sandpaper, found the point gap was .005" or less so I reset it to .020" as per the manual.

Put it all back together and ..... same old stuff during the few times it cranked before the battery got slow and started to die off. :roll:

It doesn't even sputter while cranking. I'll try the starting fluid after the battery charges back up, I'd like to hear it at least try to start before I throw more money at it.

I find it really remarkable that all this went wrong in one winter of sitting idle. I do believe my friend when he told me it ran last fall, he wouldn't lie to me.
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Postby Rudi » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:07 am

888:

If there is one tip I can pass along, it is to do it methodically. One system at a time. You need 3 things to get her to run.. Fuel, Spark and Air. Check each system completely and methodically prior to moving to the next system.

1st, make sure the fuel system is working properly. Follow the above.
2nd, make sure the ignition/start sytem is working properly. Follow the troubleshooting tips in the manual.
3rd, Make sure that you have good air supply. Check the crankcase vent tube as well. Change the oil in the oil bath, clean the filter.. do it methodically.

Then check every ground that you have.. and I mean every ground. If you have to, disconnect everything except the starting circuit. Make sure it has perfectly clean terminals and grounds..

Then it should run perfectly. Well, fingers are crossed on that one :!: :wink: :D
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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:15 am

Rudi, I apologize to you and to all. I didn't mean the post as anything other than a slap at myself for not knowing any better. I thought it was a good idea to dunk it and blow it out. I've done the same on a single cylinder and it didn't hurt anything.

It's one of those times where what you write doesn't reflect what you mean to say.

It certainly wasn't directed at George or anyone else. You guys have all been great and kind to a new guy. I'm a member of a lot of other forums for other types of vehicles and this is without doubt the most good natured and helpful group of any I've run across.

So I would hate to have anything I post be taken the wrong way on this board since you all have been exceptionally helpful and kind to me.

Am I frustrated with this Cub? You bet. I'm frustrated with myself for having so much trouble with something that is so simple compared with the other machines I have to deal with day in and day out. With two young kids, a long commute and a 55 hour workweek, I just don't have a lot of free time and this little devil is taking up too much of it right now.

So again, you guys have been great and I apologize if what I posted was taken incorrectly. I hope that the apology is accepted, I'll order some parts and try to fix what I've broken through my inexperience. It's not the Cub's fault that I don't know how to fix it yet.

EDIT. And I'll print the links for reading, I'm not blessed with a lot of time on the computer. My wife runs a business on this thing and my kids use it too.

I thought buying the manual would have set me up pretty well with what I need but as usual, the manual is no substitute for the experiences you guys have with these machines.

Again, I'm sorry. There is a lot of information that comes across in your welcoming post that can be a little overwhelming but I am sure that it is all in there for a reason. Even more sure now. :D
Last edited by 888 on Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Into Tractors » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:19 am

888, I'm trying to catch up on some things with work and at home, BUT, if you get stuck and if you want, I might be able to find some time within the next week to drive down?

I have my Cub (along with 2 other tractors) torn down for various restorations/repairs. The carb on my Cub is off it right now, so if you can't figure out what is going wrong, I can bring it down, bolt it on your Cub, and see if that helps us narrow down the problems?
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Postby Lurker Carl » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:57 am

Hey 888,

Don't beat yourself up, we've all been there. Work, family, too many problems, not enough time. Breathe in - breathe out - breathe in - breathe out . . . aahhh, feel the tension slip away and become the 'new you'. If it were only that easy!

I'm sure the LoBoy ran when your friend put it away last fall. Heat, cold, condensation, corrosion, wear and tear here, something out of adjustment there, goop in the fuel, low battery . . . all eventually add up and breaks the camel's back. In other words, you will have to repair everything that was headed south last year while it was still running. The mechanics are basically identical to automotive systems but simpler in design and more robust.

I suggest a complete tune up to rule out the usual maintenance problems. Charge or replace the battery, clean the entire fuel system, adjust the valves, the whole nine yards. Then you can concentrate on issues that still remain. It will ease your chore in getting this machine running again and help us to help you resolve lingering problems.

Don't dispair, help is always a few keystrokes away.

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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:23 pm

Into Tractors wrote:888, I'm trying to catch up on some things with work and at home, BUT, if you get stuck and if you want, I might be able to find some time within the next week to drive down?

I have my Cub (along with 2 other tractors) torn down for various restorations/repairs. The carb on my Cub is off it right now, so if you can't figure out what is going wrong, I can bring it down, bolt it on your Cub, and see if that helps us narrow down the problems?


Hey, that would be great. I (not exactly I, the kids) have scouts monday, soccer tuesday and thursday but I can have my wife step in for the soccer thing. Any day you are free and want to make the trip to come down and have a look, that would be great. I could even come up and get it and bring it back to save you time if you're really crunched. If it's the carb, 10 minutes spent swapping it would rule it in or out. If you're up for either option, just drop me an email or a PM and we'll work it out. It would be great to have someone else have a look. It's stranded in my yard well away from lights so we have to plan around daylight.

Thanks for the offer.

Joe
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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:32 pm

Lurker Carl wrote:Hey 888,

Don't beat yourself up, we've all been there. Work, family, too many problems, not enough time. Breathe in - breathe out - breathe in - breathe out . . . aahhh, feel the tension slip away and become the 'new you'. If it were only that easy!

I'm sure the LoBoy ran when your friend put it away last fall. Heat, cold, condensation, corrosion, wear and tear here, something out of adjustment there, goop in the fuel, low battery . . . all eventually add up and breaks the camel's back. In other words, you will have to repair everything that was headed south last year while it was still running. The mechanics are basically identical to automotive systems but simpler in design and more robust.

I suggest a complete tune up to rule out the usual maintenance problems. Charge or replace the battery, clean the entire fuel system, adjust the valves, the whole nine yards. Then you can concentrate on issues that still remain. It will ease your chore in getting this machine running again and help us to help you resolve lingering problems.

Don't dispair, help is always a few keystrokes away.

Carl


Thanks for the encouragement Carl. You guys came into the process at approximately week 4, wish I would have found you all at week 1. Weeks 1 through 3 were redoing all of the wiring and switches and grounds, which were a total mess, everything (ammeter, clutch and PTO switches) were jumped out with bits of wiring going everywhere....

I'm sure you're right, this has been a long time coming and it needs going through. I had it dumped off the trailer about 50 yards from the house and garage over by the woods so my wife wouldn't have to look at it. I thought I would just "get it running" enough to get it up behind the shed where I could build a lean to and go through it before cold weather got here. It's never moved.

I would just like to get a cough out of it that suggested it was considering starting. Just a small Cub poot of recognition would be all I want at the moment. I'm sure it will come with proper care and time.

thanks again.

Joe
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Postby Lurker Carl » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:24 pm

Concentrate on getting fuel, spark and compression, then all at the proper time. Bypass the existing electrical system if need be, you already know it's a mess. You can even use eight D cell batteries to power the distributor, make duct tape your friend. After it's running, you'll find it easier to work on under cover.
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Postby 888 » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:44 pm

Thanks for the advice Carl, I think the wiring is sorted. I'm very comfortable with it working properly but of course I could be wrong. I'm into the components attached to the wiring now that give me the sparks, fuel, and air.

I'm not one to stop tinkering easily, I figured the carb was toast so I couldn't hurt it. Tonight I took the carb back off and split it. Gas poured out of the air filter intake hose, probably 3 ounces or more. I found that the float is ok and floating as it should so I'm a lucky guy. The float needle that moves vertically when the float pivots was stuck. I dunked everything in Chem Dip after removing the gaskets and blew it out. I blasted it with Gumout carb cleaner spray and blew it out again. I put it all back together and reinstalled after making sure the float needle was moving with the float. My leaks are gone from the carb and the air filter hose and carb throat leading to the hose are dry, but it still didn't act like it had compression. I found my long lost timing light and hung it off of number 1 plug while cranking. Nothing at all. Guess I need to look at sparks too. :D
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Postby Bigdog » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:49 pm

Just for grins & giggles run a temporary lead from the battery hot to the coil + terminal and crank it over. If you have no spark then, you need to check the ignition circuits.
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