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Stump the Experts, 184 style(FIXED)
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- Rick Prentice
- Team Cub Guide
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Stump the Experts, 184 style(FIXED)
This is for the Experts to diagnose. I brought a 184 Lo-Boy home last night to work on for a fella. He seemed to be pretty knowledgable when I asked him things he's done to it. Anyways, it won't start and hasn't started for nearly a year. It's been setting in his barn. He used to mow grass with it and states: I could mow for nearly an hour, then it would just up and die and wouldn't start till a few days later, then mow again for awhile then die again and no start. I brought it home to trouble shoot it. Now it has me scratching my head after 4 hours of tinkering with it.
1) It has great compression on all 4's, nearly 120psi.
2) I installed new plugs
3) Changed condensor
4) filed and set points
5) checked and rechecked timing. no 1 on compression TDC mark aligned on the pulley
6) I found alittle play in the dist shaft at the point end, thinking maybe it was causing the gap to fluxuate. I installed the whole dist out of the trencher Cub(also 12 volts). No Go, still won't start
7) switched carbs, installed the carb off the trencher Cub that runs perfect, still nothing
switched caps and wires and rotor, still no start.
9) checked firing order 1,3,4,2 clockwise rotation for dist setup.
10) plenty of gas flowing through the sediment bowl and into the carb, both carbs that I tried.
When I pull the plugs, they are slightly wet. After I'm done cranking, gas runs out the carb weep hole for about 10-15 seconds and quits.
I dried off the plugs and plugged the wires on each plug, layed the plugs on the maniflod loose, then cranked the engine. Each plug has a nice blue spark.
I've rechecked the rotor several times bringing number one up to TDC(compression) and each time, it's right on.
The last thing I did was pull the intake/exh manifold. The outside nuts weren't very tight but the center nuts were. After pulling it off, you could tell the center of the manifold was leaking. It just seems the engine should have popped, spit, backfired, at least did something, but nothing, just spin fairly fast with no signs of a fire.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I thought I could figure this thing out in short order, but the jokes on me I have to order the manifold gaskets before I can continue.
Thanks,
Rick
1) It has great compression on all 4's, nearly 120psi.
2) I installed new plugs
3) Changed condensor
4) filed and set points
5) checked and rechecked timing. no 1 on compression TDC mark aligned on the pulley
6) I found alittle play in the dist shaft at the point end, thinking maybe it was causing the gap to fluxuate. I installed the whole dist out of the trencher Cub(also 12 volts). No Go, still won't start
7) switched carbs, installed the carb off the trencher Cub that runs perfect, still nothing
switched caps and wires and rotor, still no start.
9) checked firing order 1,3,4,2 clockwise rotation for dist setup.
10) plenty of gas flowing through the sediment bowl and into the carb, both carbs that I tried.
When I pull the plugs, they are slightly wet. After I'm done cranking, gas runs out the carb weep hole for about 10-15 seconds and quits.
I dried off the plugs and plugged the wires on each plug, layed the plugs on the maniflod loose, then cranked the engine. Each plug has a nice blue spark.
I've rechecked the rotor several times bringing number one up to TDC(compression) and each time, it's right on.
The last thing I did was pull the intake/exh manifold. The outside nuts weren't very tight but the center nuts were. After pulling it off, you could tell the center of the manifold was leaking. It just seems the engine should have popped, spit, backfired, at least did something, but nothing, just spin fairly fast with no signs of a fire.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I thought I could figure this thing out in short order, but the jokes on me I have to order the manifold gaskets before I can continue.
Thanks,
Rick
Last edited by Rick Prentice on Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Don McCombs
- Team Cub Mentor
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1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
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Rick, you seemed to have covered all the normal areas. I'm thinking the gasket is leaking since over time, the heating up/cooling down which will cause things to shrink & contract may be allowing it not to pull the fuel into the chamber? Have you tried shooting ether into it to see if will start that way?
Mike Duncan
- Don McCombs
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- Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake
- Rick Prentice
- Team Cub Guide
- Posts: 5636
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:24 am
- Zip Code: 43528
- Tractors Owned: 47(circle cub),48(Floyd backhoe),49,,51,54 and another 55
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- Contact:
- Bigdog
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Rick - when you checked the timing did you just check the pulley mark against TDC or did you also verify the rotor position as well? You have fuel, fire and compression - it has to be a timing issue.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
- Into Tractors
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1607
- Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:09 am
- Zip Code: 45387
- Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio
-
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Re: Stump the Experts, 184 style
I could mow for nearly an hour, then it would just up and die and wouldn't start till a few days later, then mow again for awhile then die again and no start.
First part sounds like a weak coil.
Check the valve tappet clearance. Check for valve operation - condition of the springs, keepers, stems.
Manifold gaskets.
Take a timing light and check for spark during cranking on each cylinder.
Another guess. Your 180 degrees out of time. Finger in #1 plug hole double check.
Vacuum guage check if it still doesn't start.
Eugene
I have an excuse. CRS.
- Rick Prentice
- Team Cub Guide
- Posts: 5636
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:24 am
- Zip Code: 43528
- Tractors Owned: 47(circle cub),48(Floyd backhoe),49,,51,54 and another 55
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OH, Holland
- Contact:
Rick - when you checked the timing did you just check the pulley mark against TDC or did you also verify the rotor position as well? You have fuel, fire and compression - it has to be a timing issue.
Yep, each time I removed the plug, rotated the engine until compression was felt, then aligned the mark on the pulley(the TDC mark, not the 16degree mark) then removed the cap and verified the rotor was indeed pointed at number one on the cap.
I cranked the engine to note the correct rotation of the rotor when I plugged each wire into the cap. 1342 clockwise.
Mike, I didn't try any starting fluid of any kind.
Eugene, I removed the valve cover and checked the clearance according to the book, number 1 on TDC and then number 4 TDC. number 4 and 6 valves were at .012 and I adjusted them to .015 cold, like the book said. The rest were dead on at .015
- beaconlight
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Of course you can't do it with the manifold off but the old unlit propane tourch might have shown somthing. Did you hand coke with the hose off the carb as a shade tree way to check for vacume? When I see the circle on the palm of my hand and some gas I get a clue or two.
Bill
Bill
Bill
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
- Don McCombs
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 17480
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 21550
- Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
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- Bigdog
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 24144
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:50 pm
- Zip Code: 43113
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- Location: OH, Circleville
- Contact:
John - in step 10 he says he has bright blue spark at all plugs.
This is getting interesting!
This is getting interesting!
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
- beaconlight
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 7703
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:31 pm
- Zip Code: 10314
- Location: NY Staten Island & Franklin
I hesitated to add to this because I have seen how capable you are Rick. I saw the reasoned step by step you did and the known good parts you swapped with and it even boosted my thoughts of you higher than they were to start with.
Bill
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
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