Stump the Experts, 184 style(FIXED)

[Rick Prentice]

I dried off the plugs and plugged the wires on each plug, layed the plugs on the maniflod loose, then cranked the engine. Each plug has a nice blue spark.

Yep John, checked the spark, but I'm not sure how to check

form the plugs at the right time?

If the correct order is 1342 and I have them in that order on the cap, clockwise, how can it be off, or am I not seeing something?

I keep going over and over, thinking I might be overlooking something but I just can't see it. The guy that owns the cub said the same thing. He just couldn't figure things out. It shouldn't be that difficult to find the problem .

Rick

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

pull #1 plug, and check when coming up on TDC. make sure #1 plug fires when #1 cylinder reaches TDC. The plugs should fire 1-3-4-2. right around the cap (clockwise from the rear).

[splicer]

Rick.......I'd try the starting fluid. John.......he did mention blue spark at plugs. If it won't start with a little starting fluid.........it ain't gonna' start. I'd agree to placing your hand over the carb to check vac. Sounds like you got the combustion triangle........someone mentioned safty switches?

[Rick Spivey]

Gas to the Carb, spark to the plugs (bright blue), timing is correct enough, compression is excellent...Seems like the most logical explanation with what you've stated is no gas to the combustion chamber. Will be interesting to see what new gaskets do. By the way, is the manifold badly warped, or cracked?

[Paul B]

I know this is very basic, but also easily overlooked, Is the gas fresh, and is it gasoline and not something from the "wrong" can? If there is fuel, spark, and compression all at the correct time, it has to run.

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

what aobut valves, it only takes one leaking intake valve to prevent starting.

[splicer]

John.......I was just thinking about the valve train, as that was what prevented my dad's from starting when we got it. Your always thinking!

[ljw]

Rick, with my 184, I had a hard time starting it and I discovered that the fan pulley was creating too much resistance. I forgot whether or not it needed lubed, or what. I removed the fan belt and it started. I know it sounds screwy, but that's what happened. Larry

[Rick Prentice]

Thanks Bill,

Did you hand coke with the hose off the carb as a shade tree way to check for vacume? When I see the circle on the palm of my hand and some gas I get a clue or two.

and yes, when I went from the Zenith 184 carb to the IH trencher carb, the air cleaner hose no longer fit the smaller IH carb, nor did the choke cable from the Zenith. I held my hand over the opening just to choke it temporarily and there seemed to be plenty of vacuum.

When I started today,the cub was out of gas from setting this summer, so I went up and filled my 2 1/2 gallon plastic can with fresh gas, so that's out

The head looks good, and I now have the manifold completely cleaned up. It looks like it was slightly warped in the center between 2 and 3 exhaust, but now it's flat and ready to go back on, soon as I get some gaskets from TM. Just seems like it should have popped or something, the manifold wasn't that loose to completely fail, I don't think.

Somehow I want to check the timing between the crank and the cam, to make sure things are where they're supposed to be, just for piece of mind, since the obvious hasn't shown up with everything else.

Rick

[gitractorman]

I know this would be a stretch, but is there a blockage in the intake or exhaust, either not letting enough air get to the carb, or preventing exhaust from getting out. Since the engines use such little gasoline, either could bind it up easily and keep it from having enough air to fire on.

Another thing. On the 63 lo-boy I had the exact same thing. Cranked and Cranked and it just would not fire. Turned out that the on/off key switch was not making contact. That should eliminate the fire, which is why mine would not fire, but it gets more to the point of ignition switch and safety switches. Sometimes you think you have bypassed them, but one is still tripping you up.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

Bill

[Steve Butram]

Rick I'm thinking vacuum leak had the same problem it had spark was in time and plenty of gas. But it would run on starting fluid. Give it a shot of starting fluid and see what you get.

[Rick Prentice]

but is there a blockage in the intake or exhaust, either not letting enough air get to the carb, or preventing exhaust from getting out

Bill, I'll check the manifold better tomorrow. I looked into the ports and didn't see anything, but guess I should blow air through to make sure. This thing sets in a barn, so the mice could have some homes built inside the muffler maybe.

Once I get it back together, I'll try the propane or starting fluid trick to see if anything happens.

Rick

[JimT]

Hi Rick,

Mine went through a spell one time where I had to put my hand over the carb to act as a choke and it would start. Wouldn't do anything till I did this. It had real good suction too. Wouldn't ever do anything with the tractor's choke on. Had to hand choke it. Just a thought.

JimT

[splicer]

Jim.......I think he's been there........done that. We're all waiting with abated breath to hear the ending of this epic saga, If it's got Rick stumped............

[Rudi]

Rick:

Time for some silly input from a knownudink...... but gonna give it a shot.

Now this is on a mag equipped Cub.. but should be similiar to a distributor, cause it does have to do with timing. Could the rotor be off one tooth

It was with Granny. Cecil and I played with that for a couple hours.. precious time when you only have basically 2 part days to play... Didn't matter what we did. Coil, points, rotor, condensor, plugs, TDC, check for compression and not exhaust stroke.. we did it all.

Then Cecil said.. I wonder if it was the same thing Bill mentioned on the Zagray Power Unit.. rotor off one notch. We said nah.. that couldn't be it. Played some more.. still no luck. Said the heck with it, went and checked the rotor .. and yup.. off one notch. Aligned it and presto.. ignition