154 Loboy driveline 2

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154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby J.Stacey » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:30 pm

Thought I would post an update. When I split the Loboy I found the two lower front bolts were broken off and the right side frame rail completely broken in two. I got the broken bolts out and decided to wait on a friend who is a welder to weld the frame. He can do a much better job than me. I think I have all of my parts now. "hamilton bob" is a great resource. Turns out my Loboy has the 31" drive shaft not the 29" shaft. He said they made them like this only a few years. I haven't gotten a chance to put the replacement driveline together and in yet. It has been a very cold week in Illinois. I am hoping to get it together in the coming week.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby RaymondDurban » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:58 pm

Sounds like you got all your parts, just have to put everything back together? How about some photos? We like pics!!
Good luck and have fun.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby BigBill » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:27 pm

When you have the frame welded make sure you fish plate it over the crack to tie the frame together. I would bevel the crack and weld it up then grind the weld flush and fish plate one side. I would let the fish plate hang over the crack by at least 4" on both sides making the fish plate 8" long. Then weld the horizontal welds on the fish plate only. Don't do any vertical welds it will weaken the frame in that area.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby J.Stacey » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:38 pm

Thanks for the welding tip. I will try to take a few photos tomorrow. The machine shed is not heated so progress has come to a halt this week since the temp has been well below freezing. Has anyone tried to install extra bracing on the frame to beef it up? Thanks.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:28 am

The "fish plate" that Bill mentioned will be your best bet to further strengthen the frame. Most fish plates are cut in a diamond shape and welded top & bottom, eliminating vertical welds. Your welder buddy will likely know what we're talking about.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby J.Stacey » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:13 pm

Here are the latest photos as promised. You can see the broken frame rail. The two bolts on the bottom of the transmission are the two that replaced the broken ones.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby Dave Hull » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:47 pm

Jed,
If it is the holes in the rear of the frame that connect to the tranny, there is not much room to do any real beefing. I welded an extra thickness on once and it would have been just about as easy to change out the frame. That is why I really would want to add a backhoe as others have talked without significant changes to the rear frame stiffness and rigidity. I have seebn lots of cobbled up messes as I have repaired and parted several of these littl units. I would still like to drop a 3 cylinder or 4 cyl diesel in one. I imagine it would be a mowing marvel..
I couldn't see your pictures/

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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby Dave Hull » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:48 pm

Hello Gary
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby BigBill » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:19 pm

If there is room i would add two 3/16" or even 1/4" thick plates to each side on the outside vertical walls and fish plate the inside giving you a tripple wall frame in that area if your thinking of adding a Backhoe setup. I know i will surely do something like that when i strip my 154 frame down for the subframe. Remember strength is in the vertical and the horizontal does nothing to add strength. (structural design)

I would bevel the crack area to be welded and only weld up the crack vertical. Do not weld any other part of the frame with vertical welds it will take the strength away. If you add plates on the outside and fishplates on the inside only add welds on the top and bottom horizontally. I know you have to becareful about the inside width dimention were the tranny bolts up too you may have to work around the areas were the tranny bolts up on the inside. I would do 1" heavy beads about 1" apart rather than one continous bead top and bottom. While its apart you have the chance to do it right and strengthen it up for a backhoe now to plan ahead.

Seeing this i'm going to rethink about my subframe now. I have some 6 or 8" 3/16 wall fabricated channel to work with. I can double or tripple wall the frame in some areas. I know it has to be stronger but at the sametime the weight has to be kept down too.

I went to look at a used int154 that was for sale that had stress cracks at every bend in the frame and were the engine was bolted in too. They must have beat the heck out of this machine. The castiron engine ears were the engine bolted to the frame were broke too. It only had the mower with no 3pt hitch go figure. It actually needed a new frame it was that bad.

Maybe Bobinct & connectikit will chime in they seen my structural work on my jeep tractor frame.
Last edited by BigBill on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby RaymondDurban » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:36 pm

BigBill wrote:.... Remember strength is in the vertical and the horizontal does nothing to add strength. (structural design) ..............I would bevel the crack area to be welded and only weld up the crack vertical. Do not weld any other part of the frame with vertical welds it will take the strength away....

You seem to have differing advice, could you explain.
BigBill wrote:.....I would do 1" heavy beads about 1" apart rather than one continous bead top and bottom......

Why would you do this??
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby BigBill » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:39 am

I'm sorry if i don't explain things fully its hard to get in on paper in words how i do things exactly. We must remember each welder does things in a similair way but we may not all be exactly the same. I have boxed frames in the past on the inside of the "C" plus on the outside too in the high stress areas. I did this on my jeep tractor too.

Putting a vertical weld on the frame is a no-no it weakens the frame. But were the frame split you have no choice and thats why we need to fish plate it too over the crack with new metal so the weld/crack is covered up and made stronger. This is the only case were i do a vertical weld on a frame. But again it has to be fish plated too. And don't do any vertical welds on the ends of the fishplate to the frame. Just do heavy horizontal intermitten beads.

Now on the fish plates i only weld the top and the bottom horizontally using 1" intermitten welds about 1" apart putting heavy beads. I don't do full beads due to putting too much heat into the exsisting frame. Short intermitten beads will be very strong and will hold the fish plate in place. Stagger your welding too so your not putting too much heat in one area too.

Keep in mind frames flex and if you weld one continous bead it may crack and continue the crack the whole distance, so by using intermitten welds the crack if it happens at all will stop at that one crack.

No flame intended;
This is how i do it, its my way of doing things due to past experiences plus i been educated this way too.(structural design, welding inspection repairs/new structures schooling) Before i retired my fabrication part of the job couldn't fail and in over 20+ years of testing new products and doing lab tests on failures from the field my work has never failed it couldn't. The frames and structural work we did for a brake test once were we were dropping up to 60 to 80 thousand pounds free falling to test the larger brakes with max loads never failed too.
Weight wise we were free falling trailer trucks to test brakes. The engineering group i worked for was taking eveything beyond the edge to see how much of a safety factor they had my work had to be excellent.

There's nothing hard to repairing frames its understanding the stress's that are involved before you repair it and were to put your welds so they will hold up.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby J.Stacey » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:13 pm

Very good advice. My welding buddy looked at it and said he could repair it no problem. I am going to make a fish plate that matches the drilled holes and he is going to put it on. Then all I have to do is get slightly longer bolts and fudge the plate that holds up the seat structure.
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Re: 154 Loboy driveline 2

Postby BigBill » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:04 pm

J.Stacey wrote:Very good advice. My welding buddy looked at it and said he could repair it no problem. I am going to make a fish plate that matches the drilled holes and he is going to put it on. Then all I have to do is get slightly longer bolts and fudge the plate that holds up the seat structure.



Sounds like a great plan. BB
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