154 Starting Problem -- Solved --

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154 Starting Problem -- Solved --

Postby Bill Hudson » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:08 am

Folks,

When it comes to electrical stuff, I can get in over my head real quick.

Here's the scenario. I unhooked the following wires/cables: battery ground, oil pressure sensor, starter/generator cable, voltage regulator, and lights. Removed the engine and relaced the rear seal in 154. Installed the engine and cleaned each wire/cable and then hooked up the wires/cables with the battery ground being last. Tried to start the engine and nothing happens. Clutch depressed. Battery shows over 13 volts. This puppy ran like a top when I parked it to replace the rear seal.

This sure seems simple enough but electrical stuff is not something I'm good at. Give me a plow! :)

Bill
Last edited by Bill Hudson on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Landreo » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:54 am

Did you remove the connector from the starter key switch? If not, you may want to check that connector, it may have come loose while you were moving all the wires.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Bigdog » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:27 pm

Bill - make sure the clutch switch is making contact. This is one of those circuits one just needs to trace out to find the problem.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Bill Hudson » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:31 pm

Folks,

I've progressed to the point that I can get the engine to turn over very slowly, and not for long, but it doesn't turn over each time I try to start it.

Any help will be appreciated.

Bill
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Landreo » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:09 pm

Hooked up correctly? The starter mounts clean? If so, leave the key off and run jumper cables from neg terminal to the starter case, pos terminal just touch on the "A" terminal of the starter. If it does not spin the engine then there is a problem with with the starter or battery. I have had teminal nuts so tight and corroded that removing them twisted the terminal and tore some of the internal connections, that may happened but eitherway just bypass all and check the starter with jumper cables.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Bill Hudson » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Thanks. I'll give it a shot.

Bill
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Bill Hudson » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:48 pm

Just got through using jumper cables to try the starter/generator. The s/g turned over, but very slowly, just like it does with the key. Battery still has over 12.5 volts. If I hold the key in the start position and push the clutch in and out, the clutch safety lockout works. I thought that I might have the fan belt to tight causing a bind, so I adjusted it. Still no difference. The frustration meter is going up. :? :?

Any help is appreciated.

Bill
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Landreo » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:10 pm

Not trying to insult you but does the engine turn when you grab the fan blades, in other words is the engine tight? If not then I would loosen the fan belt and spin the starter pulley looking and listening for binding or worse scraping of wires inside the starter. If not then, jump again without the belt hooked up and the starter should take off very quickly almost like a snap. If it does not then take off the two wires on the starter and look at the terminals. Are they tight, did one possible rotate when you took off the terminal nuts initially? It may be time to take the starter apart, not much inside but look at the brushes, internal wires to the terminals, etc...
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Paul B » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:12 pm

Check the ground (both ends). Take the cable off, clean it, and reinstall, even if you did it before.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby cubguy's dad » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:08 pm

Bill

If you have a 3 wire starter/gen you probably have the M terminal and A terminal reversed. This would cause the syptoms that you describe and is a common problem with the 3 terminal.

Here are a couple of diagrams to help you out. shown is one for the 2 terminal and also the 3 terminal. Check the wiring I think that you will find your problem

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-58.jpg

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-59.jpg

Good Luck

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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Paul B » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:40 pm

A 154 should only have a 2 wire starter generator according to the wiring diagram in the service manual (GSS-1408 W/Revision 4, September, 1978)
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Jersey_cub » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:50 pm

Bill Hudson wrote:Folks,

I've progressed to the point that I can get the engine to turn over very slowly, and not for long, but it doesn't turn over each time I try to start it.

Any help will be appreciated.

Bill


Bill: I have had my 154 apart to repair more times then I can count and one thing I do know when it comes to starting problems you have to start at the battery connections and work to the starter and if there are no bad connections, as you have indicated in your posts. My best guess is that you need to remove the starter- generator and clean it up check the fields for signs of wear ( shiny spots), check the brushes they could very well be worn down to the point that they are not conducting as they should. Also check the armature were they make contact clean it up if it has a deep ridge in it, it should be replaced. And if the stater is touching the armature at all the bushings are worn and need to be replaced.

I hope this helps

Joe
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Re: 154 Starting Problem

Postby Bill Hudson » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:31 pm

Folks,

Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I'm :oops: :oops: because I did not check the obvious. The battery was shot, even thou it showed over 12.5 volts, when it was load tested the volts instantly dropped to less than 4 and kept dropping. New battery - problem solved.

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.

Bill
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Re: 154 Starting Problem -- Solved --

Postby BigBill » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:33 am

Way to go you found the problem!!!!!! :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}: :{_}:

These machines are sure sweet when there running right. :)):


The battery had a short between the plates. It won't show up until it sees a load. Sometimes these new fang dangled battery checkers are worth there money. I wonder if the problem would show up on the amp gage on the battery charger? It should take a negative dive when you hit the starter switch. I would think anyway. I think the older battery chargers had more features to checkout the batteries. BB
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