154 PTO clutch rebuild

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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:07 am

For those of you that want a quick answer and want to give them selves a late and expensive Christmas gift - there is a guy in Ohio (747jeeps) that has a whole complete 184 Electric PTO Assembly for sale (Buy it now) for $425 + $40 S&H. Item #250530998373 Ebay. It looks to me as though you would still need the front support bracket. Also be sure that the cross member on the tractor frame that supports the bracket is in the correct location. I am in no way associated with this item or the ebay seller and do not know if the change over would actually work. I am only giving this information in the hopes of helping someone with their problem. Thanks, NJDale
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184 Electric Clutch PTO Complete.JPG
184 Electric PTO Clutch Complete
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:33 am

Oh yes, you would probably also need the "Belt Tensioner" also. More money - but available.
Attachments
184 Electric Clutch Right Side View.jpg
184 Electric Clutch Right Side View
184 Electric Clutch Belt Idler Assembly (Tensioner).jpg
184 Electric Clutch Belt Idler Assembly (tensioner)
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:43 am

A close-up picture of the 184 PTO Drive Pulley mounted on the 184 Main Clutch and Engine Flywheel. Hopefully with this picture you can judge the distance that the PTO Drive pulley is rearward of the engine block verses the 154 setup (Which I do not have to compare it to). Also note the Frame Cross Member in the left of the picture. This is where the Electric Clutch Front Support Bracket attaches to as well as where the Belt Tensioner attaches there also. NJDale
Attachments
184 Flywheel, Clutch, PTO Drve Pulley.jpg
184 Flywheel, Main Clutch, and PTO Drive Belt Pulley. Frame Cross Member.
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby SONNY » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:50 pm

I think most of us have good plates/facings,---but the wavy washers and shims get weak and break, resulting in loss of clutch!

On my 185 the end snapring broke and let everything scatter!----on 154 they have a nut instead of ring to hold it together!---Also in your pic,---Is the master clutch mounted on the engine flywheel?--or back on the transmission input shaft?---My 185 is on the trans. end of the driveshaft!----Wish mine was on the engine flywheel!! thanks; sonny
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:55 pm

The clutch on a 184 is attached to the flywheel (rear of engine).

A 154 and 185 had a transmission mounted clutch. There should be more real-estate available for the PTO clutch in a 154 and 185. It's a pretty tight fit in the 184.

Great Pic's Dale!
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH Model 15 Tiller
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby SONNY » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:16 pm

Interesting!!! Ya the pics are super great!! ---thats when I noticed the clutch hiding in there!--LOL!--My splines are awful sloppy fitting and I got to wondering why they didnt mount it in the flywheel! thanks; sonny
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby BigBill » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:58 pm

I'm very surprised that the engineers never thought to using the front engine crank pulley to run a Pto shaft to the rear for a live PTO. It would of worked on any of there tractors too like the fcub. Two more vee belts and a jack shaft to the rear would of been simple. Heck they could of even driven a snowblower off the front too.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby SONNY » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:21 pm

Bill!! that is what I always thought too!! ---Sure would have made a super-tractor out of a regular cub! thanks; sonny
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby BigBill » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:20 pm

I removed the PTO setup completely out of my FEL project 154 thinking i have a spare one. I'm sitting back all fat dumb and happy that i got an extra backup Pto assembly right? Guess what i tried it when i repaired my pto the first time and found out the holes in the tranny don't line up when the shaft is all the way in the pto drive shaft. This was on my 70 int154 and the extra pto is from my late 60's int154. But i still have another late 60's int154 so its parts for that one. Now i realize the newer int154's are different from the older ones. I think its the location of the drive shaft pulley. The older int154 has the pulley on the driveshaft while the newer int154 has the pto pulley on the rear flywheel before the driveshaft. This means there are two different pto shaft lengths.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:51 am

I found these instructions and pictures at another website - they were contributed by Barry_s_u on May 8, 2004. I thought that they might be of use to some of you here. NJDale - Copied & Pasted;

First of all, find out if you have a 154, 185, or 184. The 184s were
always red and have an electri PTO toggle switch on the dash, the 154
and 185 were white/yellow with a mechanical PTO lever to the left of
the seat. IF you really have a 154 or 185 you can read the treatise
on roto-cam, below. If you have a 184, someone else needs to respond
since I am not familiar with the electric PTO.

Roto-Cam PTO Clutch sticking or slipping....for 154 or 185 tractors...
You probably need to re-build the roto-cam PTO clutch at the back end
of the tractor. I just did this and your symptoms are consistent with
either too tight a disc pack, badly chewed up friction discs, or a
cracked PTO output shaft.

You can remove the PTO clutch easily to examine it by pulling any
pulley guard off the back of your tractor, remove the pulley and pull
off the larger panel held on by three bolts (one on each side and one
at the top behind the seat). Once that's off, you can easily see the
PTO clutch assembly. It fits into a "cup" that's at the end of the
intermediate PTO shaft. You can remove the actuating arm at this
point and remove the 3 - 3/4" bolts that hold the assembly to the
tractor. Depending on how the other part of the roto-cam actuating
disc is held in place (either by a pin or a loose bolt/nut - to allow
freedom of movement to prevent binding) you should be able to pull
the PTO assembly straight back out of the tractor.
Your Case/IH dealer or cub cadet dealer should be able to get you the
Roto-cam rebuild kit complete with (crappy) instructions. You would
be best to follow the instructions as much as possible after
carefully removing the parts by pulling off the spring clip that
holds everything on the output shaft. This clip is at the end that
fits into the cup on the intermediate shaft.
Another possible reason for your problem is a cracked output shaft. I
had a cracked shaft and found another one (used) after searching the
internet. The discs for the roto-cam have to slide freely on the
output shafts 4 splines. If the shaft is cracked (usually at the
thinner slotted areas of the splines, it will expand slightly and
prevent the separator discs and pressure discs from moving.
Pull it apart and all this will be easily visible and you will see
how it all works.
I've rebuilt these a couple times and an important factor is getting
enough shims in to make sure that the pack (pressure plate-to-
pressure-plate) dimension varies by .050" when the pack roto-cam is
completely disengaged to when it is competely engaged.
When the clutch is disengaged (friction plates and separator discs
move freely) the dimension may be 1.25 inches. When you engage the
clutch (mashing the friction discs and separator plates together) the
distance should be 1.25 - .05 = 1.2 inches. If the pack compresses
less than this (so that the compressed distance is 1.22" for
example), there are too many shims in and the pack may stick and try
to drive the output shaft when disengaged. If the pack compresses
more than this (for example to 1.17") the pack is too loose and the
separator discs and friction discs may rotate within the pack when
driving a load. This will cause significant heating and eventually
roto-pac clutch failure. Measure carefully. There are an appropriate
number of shims provided with the kit. You should also keep the shims
from the old pack in case they are needed later.
I bought this repair kit from the H.B Duvall (Case/IH/Cub Cadet
dealer)in Frederick, MD last weekend for about $117.

Sorry this was so long, hope it helps.
Regards,
Barry
Attachments
New assembled Roto-cam PTO Clutch.jpg
New assembled Roto-Cam PTO Clutch
Compressing new pack for lockring.jpg
Compressing new pack for lock ring
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:50 pm

If the "Wavy Spring" is all that you need for a successful rebuild - It looks like they are still available from IH/Case. Messicks Tractor lists them as IH Part # 527246R1 for $3.14 each and says that you need a total of 8 of them. Supposedly it takes them 3 to 5 days to get from the Depot. They are item #26 on the attached diagram;
Hope this helps, NJDale
Attachments
PTO Clutch Serial # 18709 & Higher.jpg
PTO Clutch parts Serial # 18709 and above
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby SONNY » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:31 pm

Our C/IH dealer here (birkys ,INC) wont sell or even attempt to order the springs seperate, and they push the $260. kit !--Buy it or there is the door, dont let it hit you in the a--on your way out! thanks; sonny
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:51 am

Messicks Tractor makes selling over the internet one of their specialties they even post their prices and availability of the parts right on the internet.

Google "Messicks Tractor"; Go there; Click on the small Case/IH logo in the upper part of the screen; enter your model number - 154; click the blue '154 gas cub' selection; click 'Search'; Click 'Drive Train'; Click 'Drive Train Independent Power Take Off' ; Go to Item # 26 - Washer, Spring, Wave, 527246R1, 8 needed for job, $3.14 each, Avail in 3 - 5 Business Days.

Call them though - they are very nice people. They can then check the 'Main Depot' and give you an exact availability. They are located in SE PA, in the heart of one of the 'cub areas' and have many cub owners that they keep going with parts.

Hope that this helps you, NJDale
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby b52c130 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:40 am

I noticed at the bottom of the Messicks page that there is a "Kit - Disc Pack Repair" #527245R92.

When you Google this Number you get;
Messicks - $200.39
Bates - $259.21
Carter & Gruenwald - $203.50
B and S Enterprises, Elizabeth City, NC - might be an 'inexpensive' place to call.

Bates Lists the Kit contents (and has a very small picture of the Kit Contents);
4 Friction Discs
3 Separator Discs
1 Nut
1 Ring
12 Shims
4 Springs

See attached Picture;
Attachments
Kit 527245R92 Contents.jpg
Kit 527245R92 Contents
Kit 527245R92 Contents.jpg (5.27 KiB) Viewed 852 times
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Re: 154 PTO clutch rebuild

Postby SONNY » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 pm

Your pictured kit is the $260 kit here!from c/ih! thanks; sonny
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