HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

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HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby SONNY » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:05 pm

185 pto clutch pac wont loosen up on disks if I put the snapring on!---they would lock up rock solid, not leaving any room to turn on the unit!
I followed the big book as per assembly and it will never work if I go ahead and put in the snapring!---took out the spacer washers and still dont work!

When I got the tractor it wouldnt turn off completely either and someone has had their fingers in it before, but I cant seem to locate what they messed up in the process!---I went by the picture in the big book to put it back together!
Working on it right now,---and ideas?--Please help if you can! thanks; sonny
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby dirtbuggy » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:39 pm

Try checking the size of the balls inbetween the ebgagement plates, make sure the unit is in the off position before putting the snap ring on
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby dirtbuggy » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:42 pm

O another thing lay each plate on a flate surface and see if they are flate, may have gotten hot and warped
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby SONNY » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:47 pm

Checks out ok!---balls good, clean,--installed in off position!---wait a sec!---here is another snapring groove that has never had a snapring in it, and the kit dont have one to put way back there!---NOW I am back to my original snapring problem!---damn!!!!---cant get one around here!---all they got is them itty bitty little ones and these are inch and a quarter size!
Dont know if that is all the problem yet or not! thanks; sonny
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Hamiltonbob » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:18 pm

Sonny,
You have the 1st. snap ring after you put the 2 spring disks in and the 1st cam. You need a ring here for the unit to work. Look at the pictures in your repair manual.
Good Luck, Hamiltonbob
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby SONNY » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:41 pm

Thanks Bob!---the pic. in the manual is starting to make more sense now,---they have it blown apart too far to get good look at the parts, but I clamped the thing together and that is going to take one heck of a snapring to hold that back part together, (its about to break my 2 big clamps and if they fly apart, someone is going to lose some fingers trying to get a ring in that groove!)Thanks; sonny
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Hamiltonbob » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:33 am

Sonny,
If you can not find a clip ring, let me know and I will send you one
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Landreo » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:58 pm

There are two large washers that look flat but they are actually domed. Those are the "springs" and should be between the snap rings along with one of the large bearings and one of the actuating rings. The two actuating rings are not the same, don't get them mixed up. The springs or bowed washers are not all that strong. A large C clamp should be enough. The snap rings, external clips, I used came from Lowes. If yours has a spiral clip then you can still use a snap ring or clip. I got some of the spiral clips from McMaster Carr but decided just to use a external clip.
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Phazer » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:18 pm

Also . . . Most farm implement dealers have an assortment of big snaprings. As long as you know the diameter of the groove . . .
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby BigBill » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:39 am

The bushing on the shaft maybe frozen or stuck that compress's and releases the clutch pack. There is a compressed setting and a release setting meaning you measure the outer compression washers for a given dimention. Off hand i'm not sure of the setting. There's a clearance setting when the clutch pack is released. The spanner nut adjusts this setting.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Phazer » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:12 pm

Not to hijack the thread . . . but on my 185, there was a flat-wave-flat between each steel plate. Mine wasn't "opening" up enough to fully release on it's own. I did some modification and cured it. But was wonder if may be the following combo would/will work, flat-wave-flat-wave-flat. It seemed like it needed more pressure to push apart, or is this a sign that the waves lost thier tension. They "felt" springy when they were out of the pack but I know that is a subjective statement.


Anybody ever try "low pressure" coil springs in there before?
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby SONNY » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:14 pm

Bill!,---this is a 185 and its only got the snaprings in it,--no nuts like the 154 has.---the shaft is clean,-- nothing stuck on it, so all the parts work freely.
I am in the process of trying to get a snapring locally to put in the way back groove,(the $ 260. kit DONT have everything that you need to completely rebuild the clutch.

I will try to get an inner ring tomorrow and see if the pictured assembly will release at that point!-----I hope it will, but if not, dont know the next step! I would just weld the whole mess together, but Virginia says no!----(she dont like pull starting it all the time with the big truck!)
I know the wave washers get heat damaged really easy and would get weak!---may have to see how much room is left at the end of the pack at the end snapring!
Thanks; sonny
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby Landreo » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:48 am

The length of the shaft and the location of the snap ring grooves did not change so if the kit has the correct parts then it should work. There was a change in the style of the clutch as you know although I believe the bimetal discs and so on are the same. So with the correct parts and the snap ring in place it should work. Without the snap ring it will never release.

I slide all the outside stuff together on the shaft, the bearing and outside actuator, the two large spring washers, and the snap ring. I cover the splined end with a cloth and clamp the end in a vise. I then slide the spacer ring over the shaft so it is against the snap ring. I then take a short piece of pipe and place over the shaft pushing against the spacer which is pushing against the snap ring and the bearing, large washers. A few gentle taps and arm pressure on the pipe and the washers will compress enough for the snap ring to snap in its groove. Then just pile on the correct number of bimetal discs, metal discs, and wavy washers and it will work.
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby BigBill » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:04 am

Sorry I tought the 154 and the 185 PTO's were the samey same. But the 3 ball lock up disc on the sleeve with the pressure plate is the same right? I'm thinking if they used a machine fit by going with the snap rings instead of the adjusting nut were stuck with that one setting and if any wear is seen and it slips we need to bebuild the unit because it can't be readjusted or reset. Is there a pic somewhere of this unit maybe on www.partstree.com in the fcub/154 section they might list the 185 there too.


Advise about installing snap rings, in any application. Snap ring 101

Tip; When using snap rings and installing them there is a square edge side and a round edge side mainly because of the way there stamped out when there manufactured in a press. If you look at the way the forces are applied to the snap ring meaning in the direction most of the force is going in you want the square edge on the opposite side of the direction of the forces so its a solid lock up in the groove. If look closely at the snap ring will see a rounded edge and a square edge on the outer side of the ring. The rounded edge can cause the snap ring to pop out of the groove if its seeing a lot of force if its installede backwards.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: HELP!!! MAJOR PROBLEM!

Postby SONNY » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:22 pm

Got a couple snapring wannabees today,---put the strongest lookin one in the back to hold that stuff together, --(only lost 1 finger doing that)---stacked all the other stuff as per picture, and battled the outer ring for a half hour getting it into the groove,---(no way to spread it so it would go over the shaft),---tested action and it works EXCEPT it wont lock over center in the on position!---figures!-----got dark and I had to quit, fingers were getting too sore to mess with it any longer.
Next session I will shove the whole mess onto the tractor to hold it down and see if it will work that way!---I cant get any leverage with it laying on the hood of the tractor.
The only way that snapring on the outer end is coming off is to break it off!---the old one broke and left all the stuff fly out, and the new one is the same flimsy made ring, and there is no way of getting the spiral thing off!---next time I use a solid one!
Had a heck of a time locating a ring, then ended up with 1 size smaller than what I sorta needed, but I bought it anyway thinking it would hold the rear end together and it went right on!---clamps flew off and landed across the garage, but ring was in the groove so all was not lost!
Thats it for this update! thanks; sonny
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