PTO finally fixed we did it.......

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PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby BigBill » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:05 pm

I finally set up a bench to work on all my tractors. We did the PTO for my int154 cub loboy first. I had the bearings from hamiltonbobscubs on ebay already. We took the whole thing apart only to find one ball bearing lost its cage that seperates the balls and that was my noise when it was running. Everything else was inspected and in ok condition. The rotating cams looked like new and all my wavy spring washers looked like new too. It seems to me the PO had one ball bearing replaced in the PTO before along with all the other parts because nothing appears to be worn at all. We pressed in the two ball bearings and she is all assembled waiting for me to adjust it tomorrow. I did noticed the ball bearing race did spin and gall the shaft very little, a tad. I had to sand paper the shaft to refit the bearing on it. The fitup was still ok and the inside of the bore on the ball bearing just slid on the shaft perfectly too. We must remember these bearings to slide on the shaft when we ingage the PTO and disingage the pto too so they must be free to slide but not too snug. We need to becareful so the fitup is correct.
If we don't fit everything right the PTO won't work properly. Remember to grease or put some anti-seeze on the shaft too were the ball bearings slide too besides the engagement ball sockets too on the cams. My point is the PTO on the int154 isn't hard to work on its just that we have to do it right. There are little assembly tricks that need to be followed too. Like on the two cone spring washers at the back of the shaft that are held inplace by the last ball bearing and the ingagement collar. You need to use two C clamps to compress the two sping washers so the snap ring can be installed infront of the last bearing. Once these three things are held inplace by the snap ring the 3 balls can be put in place and the next ball bearing with the collar can be installed. Its just your basic assembly when it comes to cone type spring washers and clutch plates after that.

This is my very first int154 with the 60" deck. I also have all the new bearings and seals for the mower deck. Thats next saturday's job when my son will be here again. He's getting all the hands on i can give him now and mainly howall the special pullers work and the basic disassembly and reassembly process's go. Like what to look out for and becareful with and what to grease. Since i hit 60yo now he needs to learn everything about all the IH tractors.

Right now we put my Fcub tranny bolted to my engine stand for the disassembly i can do during the week. I have to disassemble my tranny and finals to install all new seals and a driveshaft i got from Ralph. Thank God we have Ralph for the good used parts and TM for the new parts.

I just put the lift arms back on my int154 FEL project to take some measurements for the spacers tha get welded to connect the arms together. Next i need to pull the engine for rebuilding and level off the tractor frame and put 0on the new tires so it sits at the correct height so i can add the lower subframe for the backhoe support. My only problem is wether to install the creeper tranny i have or not in the FEL/backhoe tractor. Help/advice??

Tis the year to play catch up on all my projects now. The doctor up'd and changed my meds so i feel a tad better now. While i'm running at maybe 28% its time to gett'er done now. I figure i can do the bench work while my son does the lifting and installations. I want the FEL for next winter too. They predicted every winter will be worse and worse. I may need atwo stage blower too. Bill
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
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Re: PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby Landreo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:50 pm

I took these photos a few weeks ago and thought I would add them to BigBills post.

This PTO was from a 154 that sat for several years. The PTO seemed to work well but I thought I would take it apart and give it a good look.

The PTO starts at the front side with the pulley and belts, a spherical cased self align bearing, shaft, drive cup. The clutch itself starts at the drive cup, a stack of friction discs, cam actuating mechanism, springs, rear self align bearing, splined shaft.

You can remove the clutch alone but I wanted to check the shaft bearings so I removed all the parts.

Loosen the 2 drive belts and remove from the pulley. Loosen the mower belt and remove the pulley. You may have to remove the sheet metal shield to get to the clutch. The clutch is held in place by three 3/4 inch headed screws, one 7/16 head screw holding the mount plate and clutch brake. There are two 7/16 head screws holding the stationary cam mount and a pin, spring, cotter pin for the moving cam. Once those are removed, the clutch should pull straight back and out. Loosen and remove the front bearing bolts, 9/16 inch head. Loosen the bearing cover/clamp. Take out the clamping bolt on the drive pulley, add some heat and it should slide off with some gentle tapping. Pull the shaft out from the back.

The front bearing can be inspected, if it needs to be replaced then some heat will aid the removal from the shaft.

Remove the 9/16 inch head bolts from the rear bearing and the splined shaft will slide free of the holder. If the bearing is good then leave it as is, if not, some heat will help it to slide off the splined end. I then clamp the splined end in a vise with some aluminum or a cloth towel to protect the splines, vertical, clutch upright. The clutch should be disengaged, rotate the cams to do that if needed. The top of the clutch shaft, the front, should have either a locking collar or a spiral external clip. Remove which ever you have. There should be a group of .003 inch 1 3/8 bore spacers under the clip or locking collar. Remove those. Next is a pressure plate, remove. Next is the stack of friction discs, wavy spacer washers, driven steel disc. Remove those, they should just pull off if not all rusted.
The friction disc are bimetal with a spiral groove and I believe 6 tabs. Inspect. Should be flat not bent. If you see spiral grooves then they are fine, no need to replace. If the grooves are worn smooth then time to replace. The wavy washers should have a distinct bend to act as spring spacers. Should be 2 wavy washers for each friction disc although the washers are overlapping so they may seem to be just one. Set all of that aside and pull off the lower pressure plate and the ring spacer under it. Next is the moving cam and bearing. It also should pull off but make sure you notice which way it goes on so you do not get it on upside down. Check the bearing and replace if needed. Take out the 3 steel balls and inspect. The rest is held on by an 1 3/8 inch external clip. You can spin the stationary cam which is held on by the clip. If the bearing seems OK then I would leave it as is. If not then remove the clip and the stationary cam will pop up slightly due to the large spring washers under the bearing. Remove the cam and bearing if needed to replace. There are two large spring washers concave to concave that function as the pressure spring. Under those washers is another 1 3/8 inch external clip and under that is nothing except the rear bearing and the spined shaft. End of the line.

Check the large spring washers and the two large cam bearings. It goes together in reverse order, two spring washers with the stationary cam on top. This has to be compressed for the next external clip to be installed. I slide the clip down as far as I can followed by the thick spacer. This is not where the spacer really belongs but I use it to push on the clip. A piece of pipe over that pushes on the spacer which pushes on the clip which pushes on the bearing that compresses the two spring washers. Compress with a large C clamp or gentle tapping on the pipe will eventially compress enough for the middle clip to pop into its groove. Remove the pipe and the spacer and squeeze the clip with pliers to make sure it is completely seated. Use a new clip, the old one will be ruined when you removed it. Make sure the cams are clean, place the steel balls in the grooves and place the moving cam on top. I do not lubricate since I do not want any grit being caught by grease. Thick spacer next followed by a pressure plate, wavy washer, bimetal friction disc with a steel driven disc. Keep stacking until done. Pressure plate on top, spacers, either a locking collar or spiral clip. I do not use the spiral clips but just use another external clip. Adjust by either moving the locking collar or by adding/removing the thin spacer shims. When done, the movement of the pressure plates from open to closed should be 0.05 inched. Measure with a caliper.

Inspect the drive cup. If the grooves are worn with ridges then file/grind until smooth. I place the drive cup on the clutch and inspect the bimetal disc tabs and the drive cup grooves. all the tabs of a disc should touch all the drive cup groove sides together so one tabe does not take all the load. If not, the remove the cup and file/grind as needed.

Make sure there is no grease in the area of the needle pilot bearings or the clutch will not slide fully onto the shaft. A thin coating of grease is needed on the needle pilot bearings but none on the shaft or hole.

Slide the shaft into the tractor without the clutch installed. Put the pulley on the shaft and do not froget to place the belts. Do not tighten the belts yet. Place the bearing into the carrier and loosely tighten the bolts to reduce front to back movement but still allow side to side and up to down movement needed for alignment. Slice the clutch into the end of the shaft, you will need to hole the bimetal discs to get them to align and slide into the drive cup. Install the rear mount 2 bolts, do not install the 3rd 3/4 head bolt or the 1/4 inch bolt on the PTO brake. The rear bearing carrier should be in position, loose not bolted into place. Now tighten the two 9/16 head bolts on the front bearing carriers. Pull and push the spined shaft forward and back. It should move forward and back 1/8 of an inch. The 1/8 inch freeplay keeps the PTO shaft from pushing against the inside of the clutch shaft. If you have the 1/8 clearance, the tighten the rear carrier bolts, If not, move, slide, the rear bearing as needed to obtain the clearance. Too much clearance and you may damage the clutch shaft, too little and the clutch will not release. You can then attach the brake plate. The clearance between the rear pressure plate and the brake puck when engaged should be 0.04 inches. Attach the lever, cotter pin, spring and you should be done. Clamp a pair of visegrips on the PTO shaft behind the pulley to keep it from moving. The splined shaft gets two 1/8 inch Allen wrench shafts in the spines. This will allow a 15/16 socket to fit over the spines along with a torque wrench. The clutch should not turn with 80 ft.-lbs. of force applied to the wrench. Tighten the belts and you are done.

Whole clutch



Image


Image

Measureing difference 0.05 inches between locked and unlocked

Image

Unlocked, the friction discs should be freely movable

Image

All tabs touch the drive cup slots equally

Image

Image

Image


The pilot bearings (2) are Torrington B1212 bearings, the support bearings are Fafnir RA 102, the cam bearings I believe are SKF 6007 2rs1n but we need to verify that number.

The support bearings are also stocked by the Surplus Center for around $6.00 each which is where I got mine.

1 3/8 external clips, 1 3/8 wavy washers, 1 3/8 spiral clips are all at McMaster-Carr.


Some key points:

The front to back free play of 1/8 inch is important.
Spiral grooves on the friction means the discs are usable, no need to replace.
The cam should lock hard, if you can easily pull and lock the cam then it is too loose.
Grease the fitting on the rear of the clutch shaft, it actually greases the pilot bearings but don't do it until you have already assembled the clutch on the tractor.
Alignment of the front and rear bearings is important, do not tighten the carrier bolts until aligned.
Do not tighten the belts until the last step. doing so early will affect the alignment of the support bearings.
The clutch will work with a little oil or greasy on the friction disc since it was made for either wet or dry so do not sweat some greasy finger prints on the facings.

The clutches are well made and if assembled correctly, adjusted correctly, they will work well. I expect most of the problems are from improper adjustment or assemble. Likely there is little true need to "rebuild" the clutches that were rebuilt.
Landreo
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Re: PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby BigBill » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:08 pm

AWESOME PIC's thats the way to go and explain it. We need to fix it right. I have an extra PTO setup from my project tractor which i'm going to rebuild also for an extra since my two other 154's are using the pto's. I think it needs the needle bearings but i'll put in two new ball bearings too.

I been using the tractor supply's moly grease but i just purchased some special moly grease from www.ts-moly.com to try out and test it.

I left my clutch plates the way i found them, there not completely dry but it did work awesome before the bearing seperated from the cage. I did notice my 3260 deck also needs bearings because it was hard to turn and probably put an extra load on the PTO. I stopped runing it till its fixed right and the cub cadets took its place but i miss the 60'' deck but i'm using the 44'' and the 48'' decks with my cadet's.

Make sure you sand the shaft were the ball bearings move on to loc and unlock the PTO. Otherwise we'll have engagement and release problems. The bearings need to move freely on the shaft. There is nothing wrong with the design of this pto afterall its lasted this long.

BTW, OT: I have about two acres of grass to mow. I'm using the int154 with the 3260 mower deck. (60'') My neighbor says its too big for my property. I said heck i want to get a farmall super A next with the 90'' mower deck. To me the faster the better so i'll have more time to fish.

Now if i want to cut the grass quickly its the int154/3260 deck but if i want more seat time plus time to kill its the cub cadet with the 38'' deck.(lazy days)
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
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Location: in northern usa
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Re: PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby bookman51 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:26 pm

I took my IPTO clutch off since it did not seem to disengage when the lever was pulled up. Now, in putting it back together. it does not seem to slide far enough on the to the PTO shaft. When I tighten the bolts, the shaft binds and will not turn. What am I missing?

Bookman
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Re: PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby Landreo » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:22 am

bookman51 wrote:I took my IPTO clutch off since it did not seem to disengage when the lever was pulled up. Now, in putting it back together. it does not seem to slide far enough on the to the PTO shaft. When I tighten the bolts, the shaft binds and will not turn. What am I missing?

Bookman



What did you do to it while it was off? Did you remove the the drive shaft and drive cup or just the rear PTO parts? Too much grease in the pilot bearing area will form a hydraulic lock and prevent the PTO shaft from sliding all the way into the cup.
Landreo
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:10 am
Location: SC, Ridgeway
Zip Code: 29130
Tractors Owned: fcub
1 cyl fcub
154
Earthmaster
JD 40MT
JD 420 crawler-loader
D-2 Cat dozer
AC Model C
Cub Cadets
Red-E
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: PTO finally fixed we did it.......

Postby bookman51 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:42 am

Well, I finally go it going. I took it apart and cleaned the grease off, but that did not do anything. Then I loosened the front belts and tightened up the bolts holding the shaft in the back before I retighted the front belts. That seemed to do the trick. I mowed maybe 30 minutes with it and it seemed fine. Now I need to take the belt and pulley off and put the sheet metal back on. It mows better than the C-3 mower on my International A, but will not cut has a heavy a grass.

Thanks

Bookman
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