pto/mower comparison

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pto/mower comparison

Postby vtwarthog » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:19 pm

I have a cub loboy with an M3 mower that cuts grass really well. I mow in first gear at half throttle with both machines.

I have a 154 with a woods 59 that won't hardly cut at all? The mower seems to be turning very slow. I don't think switching mowers will do anything? Any suggestions. Both mowers are sharp.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby BigBill » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:15 pm

Are the dual PTO take off belts slipping?

Is the PTO slipping?

Is the mule drive belt slipping? Is the spring loaded belt tention idler free to move to tention the belt and is it tentioned correctly?

Is the mower deck belt slipping? Again is the idler/belt tentioning pulley free to move to tention the belt?

Its got to be one of the four things thats the problem. I had the twin belts on the pto drive shaft slip once. Bill
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby vtwarthog » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:38 am

I will check all the belts later this morning. I did not see a spring loaded idler pulley on either the tractor or mower? I will check the manuals and try to locate where it is supposed to be. The entire mower runs on a single belt, what is a mule drive and where is it located?




The regular clutch is making quite a bit of noise. Guess I'll have to attack that next.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby b52c130 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:09 am

Go to http://www.woodsequipment.com and do a search for 29932
It is an owners manual for the Woods 59L mower for the 154. It will explain all.
Hope that this helps you, NJDale
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby Rudi » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:12 pm

Or you can simply go to the ones on the server Woods's Mower Manuals - Woods 59LB
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby vtwarthog » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:03 pm

That is the same manual I currently have. I does not show or list a spring loaded tightening pulley either? I am still looking. With the tractor not running and the pto clutch engage tightly I can manage to turn the drive pulley with about 50lbs pressure? I seems tight enough for me but? The twin belts are new and have approx 1/8" play. With no load and the mower off the ground it still turns approx 60% slower than the one on the other cub?
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby Rudi » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:12 pm

Paul:

Pics of your mowers?

M3 .. not sure what that is. Do you mean the IH Danco C-3 for the cultivision Cub Lo-Boy?
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby b52c130 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:02 am

Check page 8 of manual, Attitude of Mower.
Check page 11, Belt Routing on Pulleys.
Check page 20, Note Item #4, are the cutting edges of the blades oriented correctly?
If all of these are OK, remove belt and check 'ease of spin' and 'slop' of each spindle.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby Landreo » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:31 am

vtwarthog wrote:That is the same manual I currently have. I does not show or list a spring loaded tightening pulley either? I am still looking. With the tractor not running and the pto clutch engage tightly I can manage to turn the drive pulley with about 50lbs pressure? I seems tight enough for me but? The twin belts are new and have approx 1/8" play. With no load and the mower off the ground it still turns approx 60% slower than the one on the other cub?


There are two idler pulleys in the back but there is no spring. How do you know they turn slower? Can you turn the belt pulley on the 154 with the clutch disengaged? Should turn easy, if not then look ar the mower as the source of the problem. What is the engine speed of the 154, no load should be around 2200 rpm. What size pto pulley is on the 154? Should be around 5 1/2 inches. With the mower raised, you should be able to engage the pto clutch and the engine should load initially but quickly get up to speed. If it stays loaded then look at the mower bearings. A 154 should outcut a offset cub easily, if not, then either mower or engine problems.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby vtwarthog » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:37 pm

The mower pulley turns freely when pto clutch is disengaged. When fully engaged it takes approx 50 lbs pressure before it slips. Without a tach I can't tell exactly now fast anything turns but the differences between the two are like a skill saw and router. I made a black mark on the blade pulley and I can watch it clearly when engine is at half speed. With the other tractor the black mark cannot even be seen because of rotation speed. Now the mower on the 63 lowboy is driven off the rear of the transmission, the 154 off the drive shaft. Do both ptos turn at the same speed when the engine speed is matched? Both mowers turn equally as well by hand and are both sharp. They could not mow at the same rate because the rotation speed is so much different. I'll do some more testing next weekend. Will be golfing next few days.

I believe the mower on the older machine is an IH c3 danco and the 154 has a woods 59.
I have cleaned, lubricated and painted both mowers.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby vtwarthog » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:48 pm

I suppose I could buy a tach and install it along with an oil guage to help in this comparison. Is there an easier/cheaper way to measure engine speed and perhaps mower speed as well?
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby Rudi » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:11 pm

I am not sure if what is in the manual will help you for your - C-3 Rotary Mower Manual. The PTO on the Cub Lo-Boy with the C-3 will turn at the same rpm as the engine. The blades will turn whatever the pulley size dictates. There is a mathematical formula, but I am not real up on those.. will see what I can find though, I am kinda curious. I am not sure what the PTO on the 154 will develop cause I don't have one. They are different though.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby b52c130 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:12 am

You are comparing 'apples to oranges'.
The Farmall Cub engine has cast iron pistons and is set up to develop max horse power at about 1,800 engine RPM. The 154 engine has light weight aluminum pistons and is set up to run at about 2,200 to 2,300 engine RPM. The pulley sizes on the respective mowers are sized to take this into account. The 154 is designed to run at full throttle all day long when cutting grass. If you are running the 154 at 1/2 throttle and trying to run the engine (by ear) at a speed similar to the Farmall Cub - then this is what the problem is.

Yes, you are going to burn more gas per hour with the 154 at full throttle - but, you are also going to finish mowing in 3/4 of the time. The 154 was designed as a 'mowing machine'. Open up the throttle and mow.
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Re: pto/mower comparison

Postby Landreo » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:05 am

The PTOs on each type run the same speed when the ending is at high idle. For the fcub, the PTO runs at engine speed, for the 154 the PTO is slightly less than engine speed but the engine runs faster at high idle so the end result is they both turn 1800 rpms at full throttle. If you set the fcub at 1200 rpm the PTO is 1200 rpm. For the 154 set the engine at 1200 rpm and the PTO will be around 900 rpm. The speed of the mower pulley depends on the size of the blades. All should have a similar tip speed. The blade on a 42 inch mower turns slower and the smaller blades on the 59 inch mower turn faster. They pulley sizes should be set for that difference. If there still seems to be a difference in the pulley speeds at high idle then you may just want to check the engine rpms and the ranges.
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