New 154 owner

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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:59 am

Repair the 154's hydraulic pump.

Couple of considerations for the loader hydraulic system. 154's hydraulic reservoir has a 7 quart capacity. Where are you going to mount the hydraulic pump? The 154's circuit relief valve is rated at 1550 - 1600 psi.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:17 pm

Eugene wrote:Repair the 154's hydraulic pump.

Couple of considerations for the loader hydraulic system. 154's hydraulic reservoir has a 7 quart capacity. Where are you going to mount the hydraulic pump? The 154's circuit relief valve is rated at 1550 - 1600 psi.

Thought about repairing it but I haven't come across anyone who has the kit availible, shows NLA. Contacted Hamilton Bob's also and he said he can't get them either.
I had planned on mounting the pump to the front of the frame driven from a pully on the crankshaft, someone here has done the same. I don't want to try to run the loader with the 154's pump cause those who have said it was really slow. The capacity came to mind last night as I was looking through Surplus Supply and I would have to mount a tank somewhere because I have single acting cylinders for the time being, that will make things a little difficult. If I had double acting cylinders already I would make the loader uprights into tanks and be done with it. I also picked up a Vickers 3 valve control really cheap, came from a forklift so it's a little big, but is in good condition and has adjustable relief valves for all 3 ports.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:54 pm

New and used hydraulic pumps for the 154 are listed on E-Bay.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Eugene wrote:New and used hydraulic pumps for the 154 are listed on E-Bay.

I've seen them, pretty reasonably priced for used also. Still leading to the problem of those who have tried to run their loaders with them being too slow, and still needing to get another pump just for the loader so I'd be spending money twice to do the job of one. Aren't the 154 pumps only 3gpm ?
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:12 pm

2 to 3 gpm sounds about right for the 154 hydraulic pump.

Just finished looking at a number of parts suppliers for repair parts for the hydraulic pump. Several say to call or e-mail for a price on the kits.

Actually, I wouldn't give up on not repairing the hydraulic pump just yet. Even if the repair part(s) do not come up with the IH number, thinking the individual parts for the pump(s) are still available. Since most parts were industrial standard parts.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:32 pm

I may take a look into that if I can find the proper Warner Motive part number, it may be cheap to piece meal the parts together if I can find a source. My worry is that even after rebuilding the 154's pump and it not being enough to run the loader, I'll still have to buy another pump which will be cutting into an already strict budget.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:52 pm

I found a discussion just now saying the Cub pump is 2.2gpm and the numbered series is 3.9gpm. Still looking for Warner Motive part numbers........
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:23 pm

If your looking for a place to put a pump for a loader look at the 154 on eBay with a loader. The pump is on the back.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Slickwilly1976 wrote:If your looking for a place to put a pump for a loader look at the 154 on eBay with a loader. The pump is on the back.

That is where IH mounted them, driven off the PTO. Normally not a bad idea untill you want to use the loader while the deck is on, the blades will be turning the whole time unless the belt is removed. I'm looking to get away from that situation. As much as I like IH products there are several things they could have done much better.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:26 am

You mentioned that you have a 3-point hitch. Without fixing the front pump, you still have the issue of hydraulic fluid leaking into the oil pan. Gotta fix, replace, or seal off the opening with a plate.
I also saw that mod to add a pump to the tractor frame. Looks like the best way to go when adding a loader.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:21 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:You mentioned that you have a 3-point hitch. Without fixing the front pump, you still have the issue of hydraulic fluid leaking into the oil pan. Gotta fix, replace, or seal off the opening with a plate.
I also saw that mod to add a pump to the tractor frame. Looks like the best way to go when adding a loader.

I have some aluminum plate that I was thinking would make a good way to block off where the pump was. I do like how the fram mounted pump is set up too, but haven't seen yet how he mounted the extra pully to the crank pully. It doesn't look like there's much room there to drill and tap for bolts. I've spent a lot of time looking around my 154 and it looks like that is the only place where there will be enough room for a pump to set. Would be nice to set the pump on a mount on the front crossmember to run the loader and tractor hydraulics and use a coupler between the engine and pump, but haven't figured that out yet, well, the crank side of a coupler anyhow.
It would be nice if the stock pump would work but from what I've read so far it doesn't look feasable with the stock pump only putting out 3.9gpm.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:48 pm

So what are you planning to do with this thing? Spend all day loading dump trucks? At 3.9 gpm, the existing pump can completety empty the 7 quart reservoir in about 25 seconds. When I'm using a loader around the yard I usually have the engine idled down to slow the loader as much as possilbe.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:18 pm

Jim Becker wrote:So what are you planning to do with this thing? Spend all day loading dump trucks? At 3.9 gpm, the existing pump can completety empty the 7 quart reservoir in about 25 seconds. When I'm using a loader around the yard I usually have the engine idled down to slow the loader as much as possilbe.

I'm not really putting much faith in the stock pump really putting out 3.9gpm as I can not find a rebuild kit, can't find the correct Warner/Motive numbers to look for other sources for parts, and would likely have to get a used pump which I highly doubt was pressure tested to ensure it's up to specs. My big thing is reading what others have said that it is too slow.
I wouldn't mind trying a used pump and plumbing the loader into the 154's system if I didn't have reservations about having to buy another pump if it didn't work. Buying a new pump is out of the question, unless I find a magic lamp and wish for more money :lol:
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby Eugene » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:27 pm

FrankenCub wrote:Buying a new pump is out of the question.
$273.00 for new pump on ebay. Just my opinion, $273- is going to be a whole lot cheaper than finding another, larger, pump and then plumbing it into the 154's hydraulic system.

Back to Jim Becker's post. Owning two different sized skid steers, how fast the loader lifts it's arms, the load, is not an issue. Is the loader up to the task - that is the issue.

If you want to get a general idea on how fast the 154's hydraulic system will elevate the loader, you need to know the bore diameter and length of stroke of the cylinders. Convert cylinder(s) area into gallons then divide by 3.9 gpm.
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Re: New 154 owner

Postby FrankenCub » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:22 pm

Eugene wrote:
FrankenCub wrote:Buying a new pump is out of the question.
$273.00 for new pump on ebay. Just my opinion, $273- is going to be a whole lot cheaper than finding another, larger, pump and then plumbing it into the 154's hydraulic system.

Back to Jim Becker's post. Owning two different sized skid steers, how fast the loader lifts it's arms, the load, is not an issue. Is the loader up to the task - that is the issue.

If you want to get a general idea on how fast the 154's hydraulic system will elevate the loader, you need to know the bore diameter and length of stroke of the cylinders. Convert cylinder(s) area into gallons then divide by 3.9 gpm.

The loader I'm working with is a Freeman, from an 8n, cutting it down to size to fit and making a frame for it. None of that will be any issue for me. It should handle the task fine, the cylinders look to be 2.25 bore with 1.75 rams. Baum Hydraulics has a calculator I found that shows at 3gpm the extend time should be 9.7 seconds.
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm
I have seen cheaper pumps at Surplus Supply that do have a higher output and I would have to plumb the loader into the stock 154 hydraulics anyhow. $273 is just cutting too much into what I'll have left to get the hoses and hydraulic tubing. I might just try a used pump from Hamilton Bobs and see how bad of a spot I stick myself in :?
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