New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:11 pm

Hey guys, I've been lurking and researching on the forum for the past couple of weeks and am stuck to the point that I decided to reach out for some help.

I bought a 1977 184 with turf tires, IH Mower, Disc, Front blade, and off brand rear blade. It has the 3 point and hydro selector, rear light, and is only missing the creeper option. Interestingly, there's a lot of yellow paint under the red, particularly on the 3 pt which I'm assuming is normal. I like the tractor and it's perfect for what I need and I hope it will take over some of the duties that are beating up my 1964 CC 100 and 1974 CC 1450. To date I have changed all fluids, grease, plugs, cap, rotor, pts, condensor, filters, etc. However over the last week I have been really struggling with the following: :help:

1. Clutch: When I bought the tractor the clutch was frozen up and itdidn't appear to have been lubed in a long time. P.O. was starting tractor in gear to move it. I freed up the disc, adjusted the throw for proper gap clearance, and greased bearing/slide which temporarily got it working. However it didn't last long and now it sounds bad (light grinding noise) and only intermittantly disengages. Definitely NOT safe for the wife and kids to drive! The friction plate looks good, smooth and thick. Looks like the fingers, etc. are worn/sloppy. Also clutch slips when under a moderate-heavy load in 2nd gear. I'm assuming I need a clutch rebuild kit, but which one? I'm leaning towards the full kit, but would like to know whether I should plan on replacing the driveshaft while I've got it torn apart. Opinions?

2. Hydro: I have not been able to get the hydraulics to do anything. I have the short pump version. P.O. had motor oil? in the transmission supposedly only for a short time to try and get hydro working. :?: :!: :?: You probably guessed that the P.O. was not mechanically inclined. I replaced with Hytran and primed the pump and supply lines with fresh oil and changed the filter. No action at all from the hydraulics. The rear cylinder floats up/down but the mid cylinder does not freely move. No obvious leaks anywhere in the system. There's just not that much to go wrong with this system so I'm assuming I've got a pump problem and will need a rebuild kit or to replace it. Other than used pumps on Hamilton Bob's, I'm having a hard time finding a rebuild kit. Am I missing something in the system or do I just need to bite the bullet and pull the pump and look for problems there?

I need this tractor to work and would appreciate your suggestions!

Thanks! John

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 pm

Welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you should replace the clutch and pressure plate. Also the 184 has a throwout "bearing" that consists of a ball bearing and a sleave bearing The pilot bushing is a needle bearing and not a bushing. Removing the covers gets you access to all of the parts. Looks like a nightmare to tear down, but was easy enough. Replace the the drive shaft if bent. Also, If your noise is still there after doing the repairs to the clutch, Loosen the belts to the PTO clutch. You could have a bad bearing in the PTO clutch pully.

Hydraulically, I would tear down the pump and check the seals. Someparts are available from the Case/IH dealer.

Good Luck

Bill

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:06 am

On the hydro pump/system,It sounds to me like the control valves are just frozen, and are not actuating far enough, especially the front to rear control selector valve. I would first take the tunnel covers off and SOAK all of the hydraulic controls with Kroil. Don't bother with WD-40, Liquid Wrench, or anything else. Kroil is the only thing that I've found is fine enough to creep down into those hydraulic components and actually break apart the rust to free them up. That front to rear selector is known to get stuck and not really be open to either the front or rear system, causing the symptoms you are describing. Also, in that position it doesn't let hydraulic fluid or air completely circulate, and keeps the lifts from working properly. I would make sure that valve is free! It should pop up and down solidly, and should actuate about 1/2 to 3/4 - inches up/down. Another trick I've found is to take the knob off and thread in a bolt with a couple of large washers on it, so you really have something to grab. This will help you pop the valve loose. Once it's working freely, then you can thread back on the regular knob.

Similarly, if the lift lever itself is frozen up, the valve may not be actuating fully. Take a similar approach, soak down the lift lever and control valve with Kroil and let it sit. Keep trying it daily, and soaking down daily until it frees up.

Kroil is a product sold online from Kano Laboratories. Do a google search and you'll find it. It's expensive stuff, but IT WORKS!!! Everyone on here uses it!

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 am

For the clutch and pressure plate, I used these from HamiltonBobsCubs. The parts are good quality.
http://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/index.php? ... ct_id=5523

Inspect the driveshaft splines. They should be squared off on the top. If the splines look like triangles, then the driveshaft is worn and will also need replacement. You probably won't find a better price than this.
http://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/index.php? ... ct_id=5520

Don't bother with just the throwout bearing. If you need to replace this, get the retainer too. The retainer typically wears out before the bearing where the fork contacts the retainer. Don't forget to grease this!
http://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/index.php? ... ct_id=5546

Tear it down and inspect it to see what parts need to be replaced before ordering parts. You may be surprised at how much or how little you will need.
By the way, while you are in there, this is the best time to put a set of belts onto the PTO. You can't replace these without dropping the driveshaft. I would get the OEM belts from a dealer. The belts have to be a matched pair.

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:57 am

The hydraulic system is one way, single action. The mid mounted cylinder requires weight (mower) to retract the piston. The 3-point usually has enough weight to retract on it's own.

Gitractorman has you pretty well covered. I had to do as described to free up the diverter valves on my 154.

Something else to check. Some Numbered Cubs have mechanical lock outs to lock/hold hydraulic cylinders into position.

If you haven't done so, you need to obtain the Operator's Manual, Parts Manual, and Service Manual for the tractor. The manuals may be available as a free down load, top of page, or available from the advertisers on this board.

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:20 pm

Thanks for the help guys!

I was able to get the manuals through this site and had printed and read through them before buying the tractor.

For the Hydro I should have noted that the tractor has very little rust and the mid selector valve and lever all operate freely. I'll try a little leverage on the mid cylinder to see if I can get it to move. The locking bar is not on this tractor either as it apparently didn't come with the selector switch option. It looks like I'm pulling the pump to troubleshoot it next! Once I get it apart, hopefully it will be something easy.

Same for the clutch. I already pulled (cut) the PTO belts because they were in very bad shape so none of the noise is from the PTO. Since I've already bought parts from HB, I'll go there again once I find out what I need.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks again!

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:39 pm

Do you have an air lock in the hydro system? thanks; sonny

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:29 am

One more thought on the Hydro problem. Look at the condition of the rubber on the pump seals. The motor oil may have been a HD Oil, and may not be compatable with the rubber in O-rings in the Cylinders and valves.

Bill

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:53 am

Finally finished removing the clutch last night and it wasn't too bad of a job overall once I got everything out of the way. I struggled to get the u-joint to slide up the driveshaft and will inspect it and clean up any burrs before it goes back in.

The throw-out bearing was completely blown up and in pieces (rings). 1/2 the ball bearings were missing and I'm amazed the clutch even worked at all. Ordered new parts from HB this morning, including new PTO belts, and I hope I can get it all back together smoothly.

Time permitting, I'll pull the hydraulic pump tonight and see what I can find.

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:44 am

Hey Guys, after a weekend of off/on wrenching, I have a fully functioning clutch and hydraulics! :{_}:

The Hamilton Bob's clutch kit worked great, along with a new (used) hydraulic pump. The original pump appeared to have run dry and ate up the internal parts. Hardest part about the whole job was getting the PTO tension spring re-attached. There has to be a better way to do this?

Just a few quick minor adjustments, a couple shots of grease, check fluid levels, and I'll be putting this thing to work this week leveling 12 yds of topsoil.

Thanks for the help!

Re: New to Me 184 - Clutch & Hydro Problems

Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:02 am

PTO Tension spring does have its secrets.
Loop the belts around the PTO Clutch and the flywheel, but work them around behind the tensioner pulley so that the pulley is not touching the belts (and not doing its job).
Move the tensioner pulley all the way to the frame. Go under tractor and connect the spring. The spring can be connected while unstretched.
Back to the RH tractor side. Use a 3/4" box end on the tensioner pulley nut to move the tension pulley (and stretch the spring). Move the belts to the right of the pulley and work them around the tensioner pulley (back belt first).