184 rear main leak/crank end play

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184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:42 pm

So 2 years ago I did a quick overhaul on my 184, honed cylinders, new piston rings, new gaskets and ONE OF THE LAST FEW retainers with the seal upgrade/snap ring retainer Phil Lenke did. It seemed to work well, at the time I also put in new rod and main bearings, However, after the tractor warms up it develops a slight deep knock which I believe to be a wrist pin, it has not gotten any worse and really isn't my concern right now......However what is of concern is the tractor after mowing for 2 hrs saturday was leaking oil at a constant drip to where the mower deck was covered in oil, I tore it down again and it appears to be the rear main, it was hard to tell if it was actually leaking at the mating surface but may appear to be leaking at where the seal presses into retainer surface.....I can tell Phil used some sort of adhesive to glue it in, not sure what? or what a replacement seal part number would be for his product?? Also of concern, I grabbed the front crank pulley and can pull on the crank and get a clunk sound, which I know is the thrust bearing, when I put the new thrust bearing in 2 years ago it virtually had no end play....well a tad but not like it does now. I eventually need to pull the motor for a complete rebuild but it's the middle of mowing season and don't want to have the tractor down that long......Any ideas why the trust bearing was developed play once again???
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:14 am

found the seal part number......so anyone have ideas on why the "super Lenke" seal is not so super??
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby BigBill » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:51 pm

Is this replacement seal snug in the bore when it's installed or loose?

Loctite offers a #620 loctite that's good for up to .020" gaps on cylindrical parts.
That would be my choice if the seal is snug.

I don't use thread sealer on cylindrical parts.

I have repaired leaking transmission motorcycle cases were the center line of the case splits. I used what's called "pro seal silicone". I drain the case dry, then i wash the area dry using brake clean then use rubbing alcohol to make the area squeeky clean. I apply the silicone. Then I have a spot lite bulb in a dished holder with that clamp you squeeze. I use it for a heat lamp to dry the silicone. If your seal is good and the outside rim is leaking this may fix it. I leave the heat lamp on it over night.

Are you getting any blow-by? Have you soaked your oil filler cap in kerosene? The beather cap that's on your dip stick needs to be cleaned every oil change its the same as the old cars. There can be lots of crud and dirt inside the breather. With a clogged breather and if the engine has blow-by it can build up pressure enough to leak a little out the gaskets and seals too. Keeping the oil cap breather clean is very important.

A little blow-by is normal in these older designed engines there breathing.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:20 pm

mjr46 wrote:anyone have ideas on why the "super Lenke" seal is not so super??
mjr46 wrote: I grabbed the front crank pulley and can pull on the crank and get a clunk sound, which I know is the thrust bearing.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:48 pm

what's that mean?? CRS?? Also, with the no 4 journal being scoured and it keeps taking out no 4 bearing and the fact one of the exhaust valves is split/burning......I made the call tonight, mt neighbor and I lifted the motor out by hand and set it in the back of my VW GOLF. She's going to the machine shop for a full rebuild and I did clean out the breather cap before I pulled the motor and drove tractor around, it didn't seem to leak as bad but then again I didn't have 2 hrs of constant mowing to do......I knew when I bought this thing two years ago when I pulled it half apart and did a overhaul in the frame that a full rebuild would be needed soon, heck when I pulled it back apart I kept finding more and more things that needed attention, like the pto tensioner bushing and arm was shot.............. now the money pit has just gotten bigger!!!lol
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby BigBill » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:02 pm

I'm learning with any band aids I put on it I'm not avoiding a restoration in the future. Every tractors runs awesome at first then it bites me. From now on take the whole thing apart and do it right these machines had many years of neglect. There 50+ years old. Worked hard.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:03 pm

well, mine is 35 years old and was painted and new decals before I BOUGHT IT.....the clown who sold it to me who "restores" tractors on the side claimed he'd serviced it all.......rebuild in a can was all he did and not the best in my opinion......I hope he still has his day job..lol, anyway mine has all the goodies, 3 point and creeper so it's worth fixing to me and the good woods 59 deck!! :)
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:24 pm

CRS stands for "can't remember 's----" (insert your own combination of letters). :D

Bob
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we need to think differently."
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby BigBill » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:44 pm

mjr46 wrote:well, mine is 35 years old and was painted and new decals before I BOUGHT IT.....the clown who sold it to me who "restores" tractors on the side claimed he'd serviced it all.......rebuild in a can was all he did and not the best in my opinion......I hope he still has his day job..lol, anyway mine has all the goodies, 3 point and creeper so it's worth fixing to me and the good woods 59 deck!! :)


Some guys think a restoration is using a rattle spray paint can. If it looks new it is new.

Adding a can seafoam isn't a rebuild too.

Trust me I had that happen on #3 154. I should of drove it, it needed a clutch. Live & learn I should of known better. Trust no one.

When I rebuilt gravely walk behind tractors I tore them down to the last nut and bolt. I checked everything. You purchased a like new machine that gave you years of service. I bored the cylinder, New piston and rings.
Checked the cone clutches.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:29 pm

Well, found out why the not so "super lenke "seal was leaking.......you can push the seal in by hand which really isn't an issue as there is a snap ring to hold it in.......and it appears that a small amount of aviation sealer was used on the base where the seal rests on.....problem with such is: this only allows a minute area for sealing of oil between leaks that'll work past the outer seal surface and retainer area....and before anyone goes ape wild on me, I did verify that was where the leak was coming from.....how you ask?? I laid the seal/retainer on an angle and poured a dab of oil on the back side and let it sit overnight and the 3 times it did this, it all leaked through to the other side.......In my opinion, what should have been done is a good sealer used around the entire cylindrical portion of the seal such as loctite #620 or sometype of high temp sealer.....either way when this goes back together after the engine rebuild....it'll have that done to it , so as to insure no leak.......stay tuned, we shall see...lol
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:33 pm

The seal can spin in the retainer if it isn't a 'tight' fit. Take a look at the old seal outer sides. See if the paint is worn off and shiny in places. This would indicate that the seal was spun in the retainer. Mine was actually working its way out of the retainer and was 1/8" away from the seat.
I used locktite (liberally) and staked the new seal in. (use a sharp punch in 4 places to deform the retainer so that the seal cannot work its way out)
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:33 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:The seal can spin in the retainer if it isn't a 'tight' fit. Take a look at the old seal outer sides. See if the paint is worn off and shiny in places. This would indicate that the seal was spun in the retainer. Mine was actually working its way out of the retainer and was 1/8" away from the seat.
I used locktite (liberally) and staked the new seal in. (use a sharp punch in 4 places to deform the retainer so that the seal cannot work its way out)

good idea..apart from using loctite 620, I'll put some dimples in the retainer
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Re: 184 rear main leak/crank end play

Postby mjr46 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:15 am

well guys, thrust issue on the mains was due to the thrust being toast on the crank.......needs a new crank and gonna make sure clutch adjustment and driveshaft are all set in right and gonna have flywheel turned as well............what should I have expected for a 35 year old tractor......lol More so flea bay sellers whom I bought this from.....guy had no clue what he is doing and claims he refurbishes tractors on the side.........better keep his day job, rebuild in a paint can in my opinion is not "refurbishing"!!! Anyway, block is being bored .020, new crank, new wrist pin bushings, head and deck will be resurfaced, all new valves and springs and valve job, and I've painted up all I can right now for what will go back on the motor......pics will come eventually, so stay tuned :)
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