154 hydraulics wont go into free float

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Pfranck331
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154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:41 am

Hi,
My 1972 154 Cub LoBoy hydraulics seems to be a three position operating lever back is up center is neutral forward is down but there is no detent to hold it forward, I put quite a bit of pressure on it but doesn't seem to pop into "free float" t just returns to neutral position.
Any ideas?
Thanks

outdoors4evr
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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby outdoors4evr » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:45 am

Are they supposed to "pop" into free float? I can hear my 184 go to the free float position, but there isn't anything mechanical that holds it in this position. Occasionally I do have to return it to free float position while mowing. Like yours, the 184 does seem to want to return to a neutral position while bouncing around.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby staninlowerAL » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:10 am

There's more than one type hyd system/operating valve for the number series LoBoy. Recommend you download the operator's manual from the Quick Links tab (top left corner of this page) and read up on how the different systems operate. Lots of other good info about your tractor there as well.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Greg Armstrong » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:56 am

My 184 clicks into free float and sticks there.

Pfranck331
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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:50 pm

Stan, I have all the files that are available here on my IBooks , and I have been reading them. I will consult them again as I am sure I have missed something or not understood what I was reading, in the meantime I had time to look closer at this machine that I just acquired last Sunday. There is a lot of wear in all the mechanical linkages, could it be that the piston on the controller isn't being stroked far enough? Stay tuned.

I pulled it out of the shed it smoked allot, it didn't smoke at all prior to puchase, it wouldn't fun past idle , but it pulled a hill hard in 3rd when I test drove it, the engine now has a Knock that wasn't there before, and as I tried to warm it up to see if it would run better... I noticed a 1/2" x2.5" pin on the ground.. Grind grind, yep it was out of the clutch throw-out assembly!
So the hydraulics are on the back burner...
Good news my order of fluid filters has arrived from Hamiltonbob's! :?

Pfranck331
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Tractors Owned: IH 154 Cub LoBoy 1972

Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:04 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:There's more than one type hyd system/operating valve for the number series LoBoy. Recommend you download the operator's manual from the Quick Links tab (top left corner of this page) and read up on how the different systems operate. Lots of other good info about your tractor there as well.

Okay I Have read both of the manuals available here in the library , both of them seem to indicate that the control arm should stay forward for free float, I studied the parts list diagram from the PDFs library and I was able to determine that I have the single acting control valve, I also have the Jensales service manual parts list in it verifies that it has the single acting valve.
However my serial number is 024573.. Jensales parts list tell me that this valve was used in units prior to s# 018709.
It looks like original equipment to me, so ...I still ask why won't it go into free floating mode?

Pfranck331
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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:08 pm

Well I took another look at the IH PDF parts list and it confirmed that control valve used prior to 018709,
Does anyone know what holds this in free float mode?
IH cub Loboy 154 SN# 024573

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Eugene » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:31 am

Before you get to excited, you need to find out exactly how the hydraulic system on your 154 operates. The 154's hydraulic system on your tractor may not be exactly like the ones depicted in the manuals. Depending on how the hydraulic system is equipped, there are several different adjustments and methods for controlling implements

Check the Operator's Manual, hydraulic lift section, 3-point hitch section, and the Service Manual. Operator's Manual shows a sketch with an adjusting bolt near the bottom of the hydraulic control lever, and float lock out pins and perhaps a lock out bar on the 3-point.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:16 pm

My hydraulic system is exactly as shown in the parts manual section F page 5.
In that pats list th are 3 hydraulic system shown for the 154. The Jensales sales shop manual has it wrong.
Early models before s# 018709 are are shown in the first parts breakdown. The parts breakdown on page 5 is very similar and uses the same control valve and relief valve, while the third diagram in the parts is for 154's with the same valve as the 184, Jensales shows this valve on all 154s after some time in 1970, in reality this control valve was probably only used on the very last 154s as they were gearing up for the 184 (it is used on all the 184's but would be rare on a 154).
The control valve on my 154 is the most common IH 405 812 R91.
So according to my shop manual the 184s and the very latest model 154s have a physical, Spring loaded ball bearing detent inside of the control valve to hold the system in free float. So any knowledge or information regarding hydraulics on the 184 of a 185 is of no use to me.
Since my machine was built sometime in 1972 the manual in the PDF section that applies to me is "154 lowboy 10–68 OCR,
The manual dated 11-73 that shows a mechanical stop on the control lever does not apply to my machine.
I have no 3 point hitch or any other implaments that might interfere with the float function.

The manual it does apply to me clearly indicates that all the way forward is Free float mode.
As there are no external latches are mechanisms between the operating level in the control valve shown in any of the parts breakdown for visible to me on my actual machine I assume that there must be an internal problem with the control valve.

Does anybody know if there is a rebuild kit available and if that rebuild kit will solve my issue?

Does anybody have first-hand experience with this control Valve?

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Larry B » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:51 am

Look at how the control lever linkage attaches to the valve. If it is a single chain link then the lever locks in the float position by over centering the link. When you push the lever forward the linkage will push the valve in and go past center an hold the valve in. Usually with a solid click sound. Your linkage may be really worn and not pushing the link far enough.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Eugene » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:37 am

Control valves are very robust. 99% of the time the fault is leaking O rings causing an external leak or the cylinder(s) to leak down. So, the fact that the system does not go into the float position, doesn't sound like a control valve fault. Could be linkage as Larry B suggests.

My Operator's Manual, page 11, shows an adjustment to the lift control lever. Also says the information may not apply.

Case/IH should have needed parts.

My 154 has two diverter valves, 3-point hitch, belly mounted hydraulic cylinder. Took me a while to figure how the hydraulic system worked and to solve a problem. Just suggesting, hang in there. Also received your PM.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:06 pm

My Valve spool ( the operating stem on the valve ) connects directly to the control valve operating bar assembly via a pin.
The holes for the pin in the bar assembly and the valve spool are oveled out and there is an excess of 1/16 inch of play.
The parts breakdown section F page 5.does not show what connects the valve spool to the operating bar.

You say there is a Chang link? Where I have a pin?

A sure would apreeciate a picture , or a drawing close to in scale.

I will
Not be able to work on this problem till I get it running again, pulled the treads right of the exhaust studs removing those nuts, to check the valve tapet clearance , and my carb is all warped and fubar.. ( I have straightened it 90% and plan to file down the rest till anew gasket can make a seal.
Waiting on gaskets and carb kit and manifold nuts, found new studs here at O'Rilies.
If you could tell me what kind of chain link arrangement that would .be great. Is it like one round 3/8" ring or like 2 d rings linked together?

Thank you

Eugene
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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Eugene » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:32 pm

Pfranck331 wrote:The parts breakdown section F page 5.does not show what connects the valve spool to the operating bar.
Parts manual, TC131, group 10, page 6, shows the parts lay out for a tractor with your serial number. Page 7 provides the part numbers, name, and quantity. Minor parts, such as pins, keys, bolts, are described below the part number.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Larry B » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:15 pm

Pfranck331 wrote:My Valve spool ( the operating stem on the valve ) connects directly to the control valve operating bar assembly via a pin.
The holes for the pin in the bar assembly and the valve spool are oveled out and there is an excess of 1/16 inch of play.
The parts breakdown section F page 5.does not show what connects the valve spool to the operating bar.

You say there is a Chang link? Where I have a pin?

A sure would apreeciate a picture , or a drawing close to in scale.

I will
Not be able to work on this problem till I get it running again, pulled the treads right of the exhaust studs removing those nuts, to check the valve tapet clearance , and my carb is all warped and fubar.. ( I have straightened it 90% and plan to file down the rest till anew gasket can make a seal.
Waiting on gaskets and carb kit and manifold nuts, found new studs here at O'Rilies.
If you could tell me what kind of chain link arrangement that would .be great. Is it like one round 3/8" ring or like 2 d rings linked together?

Thank you


I have seen a couple of different ways the lever connects to the control valve. One uses a chain link and another uses a yoke like piece between lever and valve. I think there is a valve that uses an internal ball detent to hold valve in the float position. It has a threaded cap on the valve opposite the valve spool. That valve doesnt use the over center type linkage.

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Re: 154 hydraulics wont go into free float

Postby Pfranck331 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:24 pm

Larry thanks for your input , at this time I think my problem must be that wear in the linkage is preventing full stroke of the valve stem , when I get to it I'll braze weld over the holes and redrill them. The valve with the interna detent is on the 184.

Eugene, I have no clue where you are trying to direct me to look, the parts manual tc131 found in the PDFs files under IH LOBOY/ cub -154 - LoBoy does not have ' "groups" it is divided into alphabetical sections A to N with section F being hydraulics.

At any rate the parts list that I have been referencing matches my machine, are you trying to direct me to the standard Cub section? I am not waisting my time searching through files that do not apply to my machine.
If there is a manual that applies to my machine is somwere other than, PDFS/IH LoBoy series-154-184-185/CUB-154 -LoBoy/Tc131-parts catalogue rev8-1/72 .....please tell me specifically were it is.

These are the PDFs that I have been studying sencse my first post.


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