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Pension or Penitentiary?

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Jim Hudson
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Pension or Penitentiary?

Postby Jim Hudson » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:14 pm

By Barbara Ehrenreich

Curent Affairs Magazine 10/16/06

Talk about a cry for help: Timothy J. Bowers robbed a Columbus OH bank of $80, handed the money over to a security guard, and waited for the police to come and arrest him. In court on October 11, he pleaded guilty and told the judge that he would like a three-year sentence - just enough time to get him to the age of eligibility for Social Security benefits. The judge graciously obliged, demonstrating compassionate conservativism at its warm-hearted best.

Bowers, almost 63 years old, is no wacko. He passed a court-ordered psychological exam and explained that he had not been able to find a new job since his old one ended when his employer's company closed in 2003. "At my age," he said, "The jobs available to me are minimum wage jobs," adding that "There is age discrimination out there."

Bowers had hit another kind of "doughnut hole," like the one that plagues Medicare recipients: He was "too old" for the above-minimum wage workforce and too young for Social Security. Thanks to rampant age discrimination, "too old" can mean as young as 45, leaving a 20 year gap before Social Security kicks in.

Leaving aside the obvious disadvantages of incarceration - having to pee in public, being unable to send out for pizza, etc. - Bowers made a perfectly rational choice. The minimum wage in Ohio is $5.15 an hour, or $824 a month before taxes, which won't get you much of a dwelling space in Columbus, at least not if you intend to maintain a regular schedule of meals. Prison, on the other hand, offers a free bed, free food, and, however inadequate, free health care. We can expect a rash of similar bank robberies as the elderly and the middle aged seek ways to wait out the years between the onset of age discrimination and the arrival of their first Social Security check.

There's nothing new about using about prison as a solution to poverty. Over 2 million Americans are presently incarcerated, the great majority of them from the lowest income brackets. In fact, incarceration is expanding as the welfare state shrinks: while the U.S. offers 2 million prison beds, it provides public housing to only 1.3 million households, and that number is dropping rapidly. Bowers could have applied for a Section 8 housing voucher, but the waiting list for those exceeds, in some cities, his three-year prison term.

In short, we are reaching the point, if we have not passed it already, where the largest public housing program in America will be our penitentiary system.

If Bowers' choice was rational, the same cannot be said of our social policies. The cost of incarcerating an elderly inmate is about $69,000 a year. A compassionate - or merely rational--state would give Bowers a stipend to live on and save its prison beds for actual bad guys.
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Postby 400lbsonacubseatspring » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:30 pm

Jim,

I'm not going to start a massive debate on this one...as it would likely spell my doom here, but I will say this:

Lack of compassion will come back and bite you in the butt one way or another, either in this very life, or the next. There is no escaping the consequences of your thoughts, words, or deeds. This is just one, particularly blatant, example. If we are to raise the retirement age of people, then first, we must make sure that society still sees the aging worker as a viable employee, capable of doing good work, otherwise we are merely kicking the middle-aged to the gutter.

Namaste,

--Tom

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Postby George Willer » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:02 pm

Jim,

Although the compassionate have always taken my earnings by force to give to others more deserving of pity, I still, by careful management and a LOT of very hard work, was able to put a little aside for my meager retirement income. It seems to me that Ohio's minimum wage earners (at $824/Mo.) are far better off than SS recipients. My monthly check is $588.10 if anyone is interested. It's a very poor return on my FICA self employment taxes that were almost always at the maximum. My only other income is my share of crops on 27 acres.

Those compassionate souls who think we should give more to the less fortunate only mean we should give more of other people's money. If they only mean their own, they are free to give all they wish.
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Postby Jim Hudson » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:12 pm

George I think you and I both should rob a bank. I have to much to get anyones money. And not enought to cut my own through. I tried to rent or sell my shop and rental house to Rick P. since he is selling out and moving to southern Virgina. If I ever have any money to enjoy I want to come to your next Cub Fest. But I know I will not be able to tow a trailer and a Cub. I figure you have seen a Cub and don't need to see mine. Don't reply with you not having another Cub Fest.
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Postby Little Indy » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:04 pm

Lacking in our society is pople who know how to do practical things. If I was in the circumstances of this individual I might try the prelimanary bsement repair business. I would go around crack injection of leaking basements or something like that. People with practical skills are hard to find. My father, a general contractor, found good really good concrete finsihers almost impossible to find so he hired an old black man, who went by Old Man Moses, and who really knew his stuff as a super.

Practical skills are lacking. The young all want to start at the top

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Postby George Willer » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Little Indy wrote:Lacking in our society is pople who know how to do practical things. If I was in the circumstances of this individual I might try the prelimanary bsement repair business. I would go around crack injection of leaking basements or something like that. People with practical skills are hard to find. My father, a general contractor, found good really good concrete finsihers almost impossible to find so he hired an old black man, who went by Old Man Moses, and who really knew his stuff as a super.

Practical skills are lacking. The young all want to start at the top

Richard


Of course skills are lacking! We've become a society of enablers. Not requiring students or young workers to do jobs that aren't "fun" and then providing them with a safety net that we then tell them they deserve when they fail. POPYCOCK!

When we were young we were made aware of the mostly unskilled hobos walking the railroads thinking there was a free lunch elsewhere. We had to strive to learn all we could to avoid such a fate or even starve. The great depression taught us a lot.

We graduated from high school far better educated than today's college graduates. We, as a society, took away motivation! Now our largest employers are paying workers huge sums to not come to work any more. What's up with that?
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Postby LiL' Red » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:05 am

Jim & George, since we all seem to have similar situations, count me in. Maybe we could start up a new Cub Club while doin time. We're too old for the chain gang, I'm sure we would have plenty of leisure time. :lol:

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Re: Pension or Penitentiary?

Postby Eugene » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:06 am

Jim Hudson wrote: U.S. offers 2 million prison beds. The cost of incarcerating an elderly inmate is about $69,000 a year. A compassionate - or merely rational--state would give Bowers a stipend to live on and save its prison beds for actual bad guys.


This is probably going to start another fight.

There are approximately 2 million individuals incarcerated in prison. 47 percent of those in prison are there because of drug related offences.

The solution to the drug problem and drug related crime is to legalize drugs. Make them available at the local pharmacy with a perscription. Include a bit of state and federal tax in the total sales price.

Take all of the money currently spend on drug interdiction, eradication of drug related crops overseas, law enforcement, court costs, and jail or prison terms and spend a small portion on drug clinics, rehabilitation and medical programs.

Eugene

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Postby Bigdog » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:55 am

Anyone who has been around someone on illicit drugs has to know that they are not good for you. Not only do they make one act stupid, they endanger those around them because they do not realize they are incapacitated.
A far simpler solution would be to actively eradicate the drug problem. I don't mean just arrest a few druggies and pushers. I mean eradicate the system that allows drugs to run rampant on our streets.
Of course, lately, most of the gangs and drug lords are becoming more efficient at eliminating each other. Maybe we should let them eliminate each other and then take out the winner?????
To legalize drugs is to admit defeat and lower our moral standards.
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Postby George Willer » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:20 am

Bigdog wrote:
Of course, lately, most of the gangs and drug lords are becoming more efficient at eliminating each other. Maybe we should let them eliminate each other and then take out the winner?????
To legalize drugs is to admit defeat and lower our moral standards.


Agreed! The drug problem, like the AIDS epidemic would be self limiting if we simply left it severely alone. That would be compassionate for those who don't volunteer to be a part of the problem. Chances are there would be far fewer volunteers. :twisted:
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Re: Pension or Penitentiary?

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:43 am

Eugene wrote:The solution to the drug problem and drug related crime is to legalize drugs.


YIKES :!: Doesn't this line of thinking pre-suppose that the use of illegal drugs is a "victimless crime"? Ask the family and friends of a drug addict if they are not deeply affected by the actions of the addict. And think about who drug addicts are, with the possible exception of Hollywood actors and professional sports players. If drugs are legalized, will your average drug addict then be able to afford to buy them? Or will they still have to steal to get their fix? Maybe with all the money we save and the tax revenue we generate, the government could give them their drugs for free. Just so we don't harm their self-esteem. While we're at it we could legalize other "victimless crimes" like insider trading, tax evasion, imbezzlement, etc. After all, as long as we get the tax revenue for these activities to pour into more social programs, what's the harm?
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Postby Eugene » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:25 pm

Hot damn. I know this is a sensitive topic.

The USA has been through something similiar before. The prohibition of alcohol. The constitutional ammendment didn't eliminate alcohol consumption, much less put a dent in the consumption of alcohol. It made bootlegging and associated criminal activities profitable, very profitable.

My thought. Eliminate the profit incentive of illegal drugs and you eliminate most of the associated crime.

Short example. How many crimes have been committed because someone wanted a nicotine fix? Not many shoot outs with opposing gangs or with the police because someone wanted a pack of cigarettes.

We, as a country, are spending billions of dollars trying to prevent drug related criminal activity. Ain't working. Time for another approach to the situation.

Eugene

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Postby Lurker Carl » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:35 pm

There are plenty of folks addicted to prescription drugs and their lives are just as screwed up as the street junkies. They resort to similar tactics as the street junkies to obtain their next fix. And their extended families suffer from compassion overload, especially when children are involved.

There is no easy answer, just like Prohibition and MADD and AA didn't solve the alcohol problems.
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Postby Jack fowler » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:22 pm

George wrote:

Of course skills are lacking! We've become a society of enablers. Not requiring students or young workers to do jobs that aren't "fun" and then providing them with a safety net that we then tell them they deserve when they fail. POPYCOCK!


You’re correct George; and I was brought up by my Father’s teaching’s you’re not promised a rose garden. Maybe that’s why the world calls your generation the greatest generation. A job was given to you guy’s and gal’s and the job was done.

But…. Not everybody “walks to the same drum beat”. We’re probably talking about two different types of failure here, but I know of some people who have tried and tried and they ended up on life’s hard dealt deals.

A man I grew up with always had the word failure thrown at him by his father. Trying to show his father he was not a failure he joined the Marine Corps in the Vietnam era. His father than not only called him a failure but stupid for his enlistment in the Marines. After six months of tour in Vietnam my friend’s platoon was engaged in a firefight which he was left for dead. The perimeter was evacuated until reinforcements came in to retake the area. My friend did not have a fatal wound but was knocked out by a piece of shrapnel that hit above the right eye. He awakened and pulled himself to a nearby “rice patty” and concealed himself for two days until the friendly’s took the area back over. He was rescued, but was of all things criticized for playing dead by his superiors and was called a failure and a dishonor to the Marine Corps. He later was infected by Malaria and the illness was bad enough he had the choice of a medical released from the Marine Corps. He took the medical discharge and yes he was called a failure for not trying to stick it out.

When he came back home he put himself through refrigeration (HVAC) school (With the help of the GI bill), served his apprenticeship with a contractor and after a few years settled down had a family and started his own business in his profession.

He was successful enough to move to a rural area and build his own home. A few years later the house caught fire and he lost two of his children. This happened three days after Christmas. Naturally this made the headlines in the area and overwhelming support for him and his family came from people all around.

An investigation was launched for the cause of the fire and it was found that a bad connection at the house fuse box to the heat pump (A/C) unit caused the fire. You guessed it; he installed the heat pump and the service going to it. It is known that electrical connections sometimes will do that and it is up to the circuit protector (fuse) to open but this time it didn’t. He than thought he caused the death of his children because of his instillation of the heat pump.


Because of so much pressure, his marriage failed a short time later. He was forced to sell his business because his wife was the V.P. of it.

About two years after he started over again, a car ran a stop sign at an intersection my friend was passing through and his injuries left him paralyzed. The person who ran into my friend, insurance company payments maxed out which didn’t even pay for 1/3 of the medical bills. My friend had to get an attorney and the person that ran the stop sign declared bankruptcy. The only income he had for three years was donations from friends.

After a fight with the government he now is getting social security and living with one of his surviving daughters.

The last time I talked with him, we were talking about some of our childhood experiences. After awhile our conversation turned to a more serious note. He talked about all the things that happened in his adult life and he wondered how things would have turned out if he wasn’t such a failure. I looked at him with tears running out of both of our eyes and said he was one of the most admired people I’ve ever known. He said he was called “a failure from the beginning” and he quoted “once a failure always a failure”.

In my work place I do have some authority and guidance over training and testing. After my experience with my friend I’m very careful with the word “failure”.


George wrote:

We had to strive to learn all we could to avoid such a fate or even starve. The great depression taught us a lot.



You are so right George. The depression caused my Grandfather to loose his home. All his possessions were put on the side walk in front of the house. To this day, thanks to the upbringing of my father of telling of such stories, I will not borrow money, because of what happened to my Grandfather’s family in the depression. If I can’t afford it, I will not buy it. Needless to say; most people think I’m a little strange and yes I agree, but nobody can take my property away from me.


George wrote:

We graduated from high school far better educated than today's college graduates. We, as a society, took away motivation!


I’m trying my best to show my teenage boy’s the hardship of real life, but what I accomplish sometimes is taken away by some of todays peer pressure and teachings. I will not give up, because it is my responsibly to show my children their responsibly of life ahead of them.

George wrote:

Now our largest employers are paying workers huge sums to not come to work any more. What's up with that?


I’ll tell you what’s up with that George; the price of the product. You know being in business for yourself, all cost has to be past on to survive. If you can sell something at a loss and there is a way to make a profit, please tell me how. Better yet; tell our government how!!!

Eugene wrote:

We, as a country, are spending billions of dollars trying to prevent drug related criminal activity. Ain't working. Time for another approach to the situation.


Well said Eugene, but our country is spending your money and my money for trying to prevent drug related criminal activity. The Government has opened another department, which has employed a lot of people for a cause, which in my opinion could have been stopped from the beginning with proper management. If you worked for government service that dealt with drug prevention would you want the drug traffic to stop? If it stopped…. you’re out of a job.

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Postby Don McCombs » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:25 pm

Eugene,

I wholeheartedly agree that what we're doing right now is not working, and we need a new approach. I feel that a big part of that new approach needs to be a complete redesign of our criminal justice system, top to bottom. It needs to be swift, fair and consistent. Right now, the system we have is none of these things. Something is terribly wrong when someone spends more time in prison for receiving unfair stock market advice than for someone who has committed cold-blooded murder.

I still believe, though, that the solution to eliminating the drug and drug related violence problems in this country is not to legalize it. That is a head-in-the-sand approach in which no one will win.
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