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Pension or Penitentiary?
- Ralph
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 2673
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:01 pm
- Zip Code: 41005
- Tractors Owned: Near 200 cubs through the years
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- Location: Ky Florence Y'ALL
OK
This may sound a little Crude But
Open Free drug communitiess
Put a fence around it so they can't take any drugs out
All the drugs you want of any kind
If they come to their senses and want treatment Great
If not
When they Overdose and Die
Problem Solved
This may sound a little Crude But
Open Free drug communitiess
Put a fence around it so they can't take any drugs out
All the drugs you want of any kind
If they come to their senses and want treatment Great
If not
When they Overdose and Die
Problem Solved
Shoot low Sherriff they are Riding Shadows
4 Wheels move the body.....
2 Wheels move the Soul .....
Ralph in ky.
4 Wheels move the body.....
2 Wheels move the Soul .....
Ralph in ky.
- George Willer
- Cub Pro
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Ralph,
Where's your compassion? You're supposed to feel bad about having such ideas, even if it could solve a serious problem.
Where's your compassion? You're supposed to feel bad about having such ideas, even if it could solve a serious problem.
George Willer
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
- Ralph
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 2673
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:01 pm
- Zip Code: 41005
- Tractors Owned: Near 200 cubs through the years
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Ky Florence Y'ALL
- George Willer
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7013
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm
- Zip Code: 43420
- Circle of Safety: Y
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- Contact:
Ralph wrote:Sir George
If their Mindset is to destroy themself with drugs no amount of compassion or money will change the outcome
Sir Ralph,
That's true, of course, but now there are two of us who may be accused of not having compassion.
Where's Sheriff Joe Arpaio when we need him?
George Willer
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
-
- 10+ Years
George Willer wrote:Ralph wrote:Sir George
If their Mindset is to destroy themself with drugs no amount of compassion or money will change the outcome
Sir Ralph,
That's true, of course, but now there are two of us who may be accused of not having compassion.
Where's Sheriff Joe Arpaio when we need him?
3
-
- Team Cub Mentor
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- Location: Mo. Linn
Rather than taking the myoptic approach to the situation, lets take a look at what other countries are doing to help reduce the drug and drug related problems.
The Swiss have open drug zones in designated city parks in larger cities. This doesn't solve the Swiss' drug problems but it does put the majority of the problems in one area.
I believe some are missing my main point. We need to spend our resources on the prevention of drug abuse and medical assistance for those addicted.
Eugene
OK This may sound a little Crude But Open Free drug communities.
The Swiss have open drug zones in designated city parks in larger cities. This doesn't solve the Swiss' drug problems but it does put the majority of the problems in one area.
I believe some are missing my main point. We need to spend our resources on the prevention of drug abuse and medical assistance for those addicted.
Eugene
- Rudi
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Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
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Having spent over a decade trying to educate our youth about the risks of IV Drugs, Tats, Unsafe Sex, and other self-abusive tendencies... which include all of the risk factors for STD's, I have finally come to the realization that:
1. People will do exactly as they please... no matter what you teach em
2. What they please may or may not have anything to do with how they are raised, educated or nurtured.
3. People do not understand the definition of the one word that ALL must abide by and that is Responsibility.
4. No matter what one feels, there will be an equal and/or opposite reaction, and that is the basis of the human condition.
5. Trying to educate anybody who does not want to be educated, is much akin to banging your head upside a brick wall -- ouch it smarts...
1. People will do exactly as they please... no matter what you teach em
2. What they please may or may not have anything to do with how they are raised, educated or nurtured.
3. People do not understand the definition of the one word that ALL must abide by and that is Responsibility.
4. No matter what one feels, there will be an equal and/or opposite reaction, and that is the basis of the human condition.
5. Trying to educate anybody who does not want to be educated, is much akin to banging your head upside a brick wall -- ouch it smarts...
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship
- George Willer
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7013
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm
- Zip Code: 43420
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OHIO, Fremont
- Contact:
Eugene wrote: We need to spend our resources on the prevention of drug abuse and medical assistance for those addicted.
Eugene
Certainly we need to do what we can for prevention. Aren't we already doing that? Why do we owe enabling medical assistance to those who scorn our advice? Shouldn't our assistance be directed toward those who didn't choose their unfortunate plight?
George Willer
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:50 pm
- eBay ID: falco-de-fiume
- Location: NE, Cheney
Drugs on the street were at their highest cost and we had the fewest addicts when a physician was in charge of the DEA. Don't get me wrong I am not advocating I feel your pain approach. Rather a recommendation that anyone who wants to kick the habit should have the means availible. I also think that anyone who commits a crime to get drugs should reap what they have sown.
I might consider an approach where a joint could be purchased with a 5-15 dollar tax on it to reduce federal debt. The history of hemp and marijuana is very interesting. Apparently DuPont had somehing to do with making hemp illegal to grow and making marijuana a class 1 narcotic (morphine is a class 2). Fairly easy for a physician to get a DEA liscene for class 2-7 narcotics but extremely difficult to get a class 1 license. The drug does have some legitimate uses--cancer chemotherapy, gaucoma. But it can not be prescribed for these uses. If it were a class 2 narcotic it could be prescribed but would be tightly controlled.
We need to think through our drug policy. Where is Mr. Spock when we need him?
Richard
ps I do think one of the penalties for using drugs now considered illeagal should be loss of driving privileges.
I might consider an approach where a joint could be purchased with a 5-15 dollar tax on it to reduce federal debt. The history of hemp and marijuana is very interesting. Apparently DuPont had somehing to do with making hemp illegal to grow and making marijuana a class 1 narcotic (morphine is a class 2). Fairly easy for a physician to get a DEA liscene for class 2-7 narcotics but extremely difficult to get a class 1 license. The drug does have some legitimate uses--cancer chemotherapy, gaucoma. But it can not be prescribed for these uses. If it were a class 2 narcotic it could be prescribed but would be tightly controlled.
We need to think through our drug policy. Where is Mr. Spock when we need him?
Richard
ps I do think one of the penalties for using drugs now considered illeagal should be loss of driving privileges.
Si hoc legere scis,nimium eruditionis habes.
- Jim Hudson
- 10+ Years
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- Zip Code: 28001
- Location: Albemarle, North Carolina 28001
Redman said IMHO the biggest problem plaguing retirees today. And he is right!
Lifting veil on healthcare costs
Exposing the super-secret lists of healthcare pricing could lead to huge changes -- and give consumers a real understanding of the true costs of their treatment.
BY JOHN DORSCHNER
jdorschner@MiamiHerald.com
At Broward General or Mercy Hospital, a coronary bypass operation can be expected to cost $30,909 to $43,407. At Baptist Hospital, the cost is likely to be far more -- $43,070 to $58,271, according the health insurer Cigna.
For women ages 40-64 insured by Aetna, gynecologist Moises Lichtinger in Fort Lauderdale charges $86.93 for a comprehensive exam. In Miami Beach, gynecologist Pedro J. Brasac charges $106.99.
For the first time, insurers are starting to reveal some of the most deeply held secrets of healthcare -- what things really cost. Those revelations may ultimately change what providers charge -- and how much consumers pay.
''We're at the leading edge of a huge change,'' says Brian Klepper of the Center for Practical Health Reform.
Many health insurers and governments are already charging ahead to make information about hospital and doctor quality performance available to the public, but many believe the biggest push -- and the biggest battleground -- will be the revelation of healthcare pricing.
At the moment, healthcare prices are so convoluted that even experts struggle to make sense of them.
The list of prices for Baptist Hospital, for example, is contained in a foot-thick document called a chargemaster. No outsider is allowed to see it. What's more, virtually no one pays those prices. Medicare, Medicaid and consumers with private health plans all pay negotiated rates that may be only a third of the official prices. That means only those without insurance get hit with a full-price bill.
Uwe Reinhardt, the widely respected healthcare economist at Princeton, compares present hospital pricing to entering a department store blindfolded and shopping for a ``clothes benefit program.''
''Only months after a shopping trip would the employee receive . . . a statement explaining how much the employee had to pay for whatever he or she had stuffed, blindfolded, into the shopping cart,'' wrote Reinhardt in the January/February issue of Health Affairs.
That meant the department store/hospital had finally presented its charges, and the insurer then decided what was a ''reasonable'' rate for those charges that it deemed appropriate. Finally, the customer is told to pay a certain percentage of that mysterious figure.
At present, persons with insurance generally don't care about this mysterious pricing. For that coronary by-pass surgery mentioned above, for example, the Cigna patient in one typical high-deductible plan would have an out-of-pocket expense of $3,000 at each facility, regardless of the cost.
Knowing prices now ''helps provide clarity on how much things cost,'' says Joe Mondy, a Cigna spokesman.
''The more people understand the cost of healthcare, the better off we will be,'' says Charles Cutler, national medical director for Aetna.
At some point, however, this abstract knowledge will be used for specific economic ends. Insurers are already calculating the costs of care and comparing it with the quality of a provider's care. ''That's going to start a huge shift,'' says Klepper of the Health Reform group.
The Bush administration in Washington and private insurers believe that hospitals and doctors who do the best in this quality-cost scenario should be rewarded with higher payments -- the so-called ``pay for performance.''
The flip side is steering consumers to those providers who provide quality efficiently. Cigna is already starting to do that, with its Cigna Care Network, made up of doctors who score well for quality and cost-efficiency. Starting in January in 58 markets (including South Florida), members who use the Cigna Care doctors will be rewarded by saving $10 to $30 per office visit.
Doctor quality by itself is a complex issue -- as The Miami Herald discussed in a report last Sunday -- but efficiency may be even more complicated.
Spokesmen for programs like Aetna's Aexcel, UnitedHealthcare's Premium Physicians and Cigna's Care Network insist that efficiency ratings are given only to those physicians who have already shown quality performance, but none of them go into detail about what makes for efficiency.
Theoretically, efficiency could mean keeping patients out of expensive emergency rooms or not requesting unnecessary tests and procedures, but in practice, doctors are suspicious that it might mean simple cost-cutting.
''You have to look very carefully at those efficiency numbers,'' says Nancy Nielsen, a Buffalo internist who's head of the American Medical Association's House of Delegates. ``Some are only about costs. That's where it gets tricky. That's where the biggest fights and negotiations are.''
The AMA is so concerned about insurers forming networks using efficiency measurements that its delegates, meeting in Las Vegas in November, passed a resolution seeking laws to prohibit insurers from creating networks ''based solely on economic criteria.'' Last week, the national organization of doctors joined its first lawsuit on the issue, against Regence BlueShield in Washington state. Insurers insist it won't be ''solely'' on costs, but they say something must be done about cost disparities, many of which have nothing to do with quality of care.
In South Florida, Aetna reports, the negotiated rates -- the real rates insurers pay -- vary widely right now. Knee arthroscopy in an orthopedist's office can cost from $1,922 to $4,000. For a hysteroscopy (the insertion of a small telescope to study a uterus) at an OB/GYN office, the price ranges from $1,200 to $4,756. For a heart catheterization, at a cardiology office, the price ranges from $600 to $2,500.
Of course, top doctors charging more might explain those variations, but what explains differences in radiology tests, such as a magnetic resonance imaging?
''These are commodities,'' says Mondy of Cigna. ''An MRI is an MRI is an MRI.'' But Cigna's studies show that their costs vary by an average of 30 percent.
An MRI without contrast agent at the Cleveland Clinic in Weston costs $400 in Cigna's negotiated fees. Broward General's price is $450. Hollywood Medical Center charges $660.
Some insurers are more focused on advising consumers about estimates for procedures -- without showing the differences between facilities. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida, for example, tells its members that coronary bypass surgery for a 45- to 64-year-old in Miami-Dade will cost $55,562 to $80,257 in network, $124,260 to $179,488 out of network, for everything including hospital, surgeon and related costs. In Broward, it would be a couple of thousand less.
A Florida government website also offers pricing information, but it is based on hospitals' gross charges, which persons rarely pay. Still, an uninsured person who is likely to be charged full fare can learn from the website (floridacomparecare.com) that for coronary bypass surgery at Baptist Hospital is $135,573, well below Broward General's $140,227 and Mercy's $154,261.
But the data of Cigna and other insurers reveal that Baptist, which has a near monopoly on the affluent area of southern Miami-Dade, is able to negotiate a much better deal for itself than the others can.
When it comes to real prices -- the negotiated rates -- Cigna pays Baptist about 35 percent of its full charges (around $47,500), while Broward General gets about 26 percent ($37,000) and Mercy receives about 24 percent ($37,000). And, as Cigna members are told on the insurer's website, the three hospitals are all ranked at the top level of three stars for the quality of patients' outcomes.
Eric Shatanof, vice president of Baptist Health South Florida, says that the price of one procedure, such as coronary bypass, doesn't mean that the Baptist hospitals (which include Doctors, South Miami and Homestead) are more expensive in all charges. ``Pricing is pretty complex. We could be more expensive on heart surgery and less expensive on something else.''
However, executives of four other insurers have told The Miami Herald that Baptist is consistently and considerably higher in its pricing. The executives don't want their names used because they don't want to anger the hospital system, which the insurers regard as crucial to maintaining customer satisfaction.
Shatanof acknowledges that ''our cost structure is quite a bit higher than our competitors. We have a higher clinical staffing ratio. We have higher investments, like the remote [intensive care unit] monitoring. So it's not necessarily apples to apples comparisons'' on quality and price.
But if insurers go to tier systems, in which consumers would have to pay more to go to higher-priced hospitals, ''it could change the mix,'' said Shatanof. ``Then you have to change the pricing.''
**************************
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--------------------------
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Lifting veil on healthcare costs
Exposing the super-secret lists of healthcare pricing could lead to huge changes -- and give consumers a real understanding of the true costs of their treatment.
BY JOHN DORSCHNER
jdorschner@MiamiHerald.com
At Broward General or Mercy Hospital, a coronary bypass operation can be expected to cost $30,909 to $43,407. At Baptist Hospital, the cost is likely to be far more -- $43,070 to $58,271, according the health insurer Cigna.
For women ages 40-64 insured by Aetna, gynecologist Moises Lichtinger in Fort Lauderdale charges $86.93 for a comprehensive exam. In Miami Beach, gynecologist Pedro J. Brasac charges $106.99.
For the first time, insurers are starting to reveal some of the most deeply held secrets of healthcare -- what things really cost. Those revelations may ultimately change what providers charge -- and how much consumers pay.
''We're at the leading edge of a huge change,'' says Brian Klepper of the Center for Practical Health Reform.
Many health insurers and governments are already charging ahead to make information about hospital and doctor quality performance available to the public, but many believe the biggest push -- and the biggest battleground -- will be the revelation of healthcare pricing.
At the moment, healthcare prices are so convoluted that even experts struggle to make sense of them.
The list of prices for Baptist Hospital, for example, is contained in a foot-thick document called a chargemaster. No outsider is allowed to see it. What's more, virtually no one pays those prices. Medicare, Medicaid and consumers with private health plans all pay negotiated rates that may be only a third of the official prices. That means only those without insurance get hit with a full-price bill.
Uwe Reinhardt, the widely respected healthcare economist at Princeton, compares present hospital pricing to entering a department store blindfolded and shopping for a ``clothes benefit program.''
''Only months after a shopping trip would the employee receive . . . a statement explaining how much the employee had to pay for whatever he or she had stuffed, blindfolded, into the shopping cart,'' wrote Reinhardt in the January/February issue of Health Affairs.
That meant the department store/hospital had finally presented its charges, and the insurer then decided what was a ''reasonable'' rate for those charges that it deemed appropriate. Finally, the customer is told to pay a certain percentage of that mysterious figure.
At present, persons with insurance generally don't care about this mysterious pricing. For that coronary by-pass surgery mentioned above, for example, the Cigna patient in one typical high-deductible plan would have an out-of-pocket expense of $3,000 at each facility, regardless of the cost.
Knowing prices now ''helps provide clarity on how much things cost,'' says Joe Mondy, a Cigna spokesman.
''The more people understand the cost of healthcare, the better off we will be,'' says Charles Cutler, national medical director for Aetna.
At some point, however, this abstract knowledge will be used for specific economic ends. Insurers are already calculating the costs of care and comparing it with the quality of a provider's care. ''That's going to start a huge shift,'' says Klepper of the Health Reform group.
The Bush administration in Washington and private insurers believe that hospitals and doctors who do the best in this quality-cost scenario should be rewarded with higher payments -- the so-called ``pay for performance.''
The flip side is steering consumers to those providers who provide quality efficiently. Cigna is already starting to do that, with its Cigna Care Network, made up of doctors who score well for quality and cost-efficiency. Starting in January in 58 markets (including South Florida), members who use the Cigna Care doctors will be rewarded by saving $10 to $30 per office visit.
Doctor quality by itself is a complex issue -- as The Miami Herald discussed in a report last Sunday -- but efficiency may be even more complicated.
Spokesmen for programs like Aetna's Aexcel, UnitedHealthcare's Premium Physicians and Cigna's Care Network insist that efficiency ratings are given only to those physicians who have already shown quality performance, but none of them go into detail about what makes for efficiency.
Theoretically, efficiency could mean keeping patients out of expensive emergency rooms or not requesting unnecessary tests and procedures, but in practice, doctors are suspicious that it might mean simple cost-cutting.
''You have to look very carefully at those efficiency numbers,'' says Nancy Nielsen, a Buffalo internist who's head of the American Medical Association's House of Delegates. ``Some are only about costs. That's where it gets tricky. That's where the biggest fights and negotiations are.''
The AMA is so concerned about insurers forming networks using efficiency measurements that its delegates, meeting in Las Vegas in November, passed a resolution seeking laws to prohibit insurers from creating networks ''based solely on economic criteria.'' Last week, the national organization of doctors joined its first lawsuit on the issue, against Regence BlueShield in Washington state. Insurers insist it won't be ''solely'' on costs, but they say something must be done about cost disparities, many of which have nothing to do with quality of care.
In South Florida, Aetna reports, the negotiated rates -- the real rates insurers pay -- vary widely right now. Knee arthroscopy in an orthopedist's office can cost from $1,922 to $4,000. For a hysteroscopy (the insertion of a small telescope to study a uterus) at an OB/GYN office, the price ranges from $1,200 to $4,756. For a heart catheterization, at a cardiology office, the price ranges from $600 to $2,500.
Of course, top doctors charging more might explain those variations, but what explains differences in radiology tests, such as a magnetic resonance imaging?
''These are commodities,'' says Mondy of Cigna. ''An MRI is an MRI is an MRI.'' But Cigna's studies show that their costs vary by an average of 30 percent.
An MRI without contrast agent at the Cleveland Clinic in Weston costs $400 in Cigna's negotiated fees. Broward General's price is $450. Hollywood Medical Center charges $660.
Some insurers are more focused on advising consumers about estimates for procedures -- without showing the differences between facilities. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida, for example, tells its members that coronary bypass surgery for a 45- to 64-year-old in Miami-Dade will cost $55,562 to $80,257 in network, $124,260 to $179,488 out of network, for everything including hospital, surgeon and related costs. In Broward, it would be a couple of thousand less.
A Florida government website also offers pricing information, but it is based on hospitals' gross charges, which persons rarely pay. Still, an uninsured person who is likely to be charged full fare can learn from the website (floridacomparecare.com) that for coronary bypass surgery at Baptist Hospital is $135,573, well below Broward General's $140,227 and Mercy's $154,261.
But the data of Cigna and other insurers reveal that Baptist, which has a near monopoly on the affluent area of southern Miami-Dade, is able to negotiate a much better deal for itself than the others can.
When it comes to real prices -- the negotiated rates -- Cigna pays Baptist about 35 percent of its full charges (around $47,500), while Broward General gets about 26 percent ($37,000) and Mercy receives about 24 percent ($37,000). And, as Cigna members are told on the insurer's website, the three hospitals are all ranked at the top level of three stars for the quality of patients' outcomes.
Eric Shatanof, vice president of Baptist Health South Florida, says that the price of one procedure, such as coronary bypass, doesn't mean that the Baptist hospitals (which include Doctors, South Miami and Homestead) are more expensive in all charges. ``Pricing is pretty complex. We could be more expensive on heart surgery and less expensive on something else.''
However, executives of four other insurers have told The Miami Herald that Baptist is consistently and considerably higher in its pricing. The executives don't want their names used because they don't want to anger the hospital system, which the insurers regard as crucial to maintaining customer satisfaction.
Shatanof acknowledges that ''our cost structure is quite a bit higher than our competitors. We have a higher clinical staffing ratio. We have higher investments, like the remote [intensive care unit] monitoring. So it's not necessarily apples to apples comparisons'' on quality and price.
But if insurers go to tier systems, in which consumers would have to pay more to go to higher-priced hospitals, ''it could change the mix,'' said Shatanof. ``Then you have to change the pricing.''
**************************
By helping to pay transmission costs, Universal Drugstore is proud to sponsor the Suddenly Senior Rx List e-mails and the important information these emails provide. For more information on our sponsor please visit their website http://www.UniversalDrugstore.com/.
**************************
To unsubscribe to this Rx Newsletter, simply send a blank e-mail to Remove-rxnews@suddenlysenior.com
Want to get "Monday's Best Jokes" e-mailed every week? Send blank e-mail to get-jokes@suddenlysenior.com
To get the informative and funny Suddenly Senior weekly column, absolutely free, send blank e-mail to Get-ss@suddenlysenior.com
NEW! Get the latest healthcare, Medicare and Canadian drug store news e-mailed almost every day, send blank e-mail to Get-rxnews@suddenlysenior.com
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Suddenly Senior has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Suddenly Senior endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)
--------------------------
Frank Kaiser frank@suddenlysenior.com http://www.suddenlysenior.com Since 1999, America's most trusted senior citizen Website. Read by over 2.3 million monthly.
----------------------------
We never mail intentionally to anyone who has not requested being on the list. To remove yourself send an blank email to remove-rxlist@suddenlysenior.com
Young man for work, old man for advice
-
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 20336
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
- Zip Code: 65051
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Mo. Linn
Redman.
Thank you for your previous post. I'm currently in a dispute with a medical group who didn't bill for services within the time alloted in their contract with my insurance company. They want me to pay the entire bill.
On the insurance companies. According to my neighbor. If the insurance company spends/pay out 50% or more of the money collected in one year on pay claims - the insurance rates go up.
Eugene
Thank you for your previous post. I'm currently in a dispute with a medical group who didn't bill for services within the time alloted in their contract with my insurance company. They want me to pay the entire bill.
On the insurance companies. According to my neighbor. If the insurance company spends/pay out 50% or more of the money collected in one year on pay claims - the insurance rates go up.
Eugene
- grumpy
- Cub Pro
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free drugs
AS Don said about the Gov giving the dopers free drugs--- they already do. Check out the methadone clinics popping up around Cumberland. No income = free or really cheap fixes. Dave
David Dee Mock-Leonard
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints
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