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To Sonny Or any others that have ever logged

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Mag Man
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To Sonny Or any others that have ever logged

Postby Mag Man » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:11 am

Hi Guys I am thinking well I am not thinking I am going to log my property this winter. I am going to get what I can my self and have the neighbor come in with his timber jack when he gets time to get the swamp and any big tree's. But here is my question? Does any one know what a saw mill wants? If I have a 20 foot tree do they want a 12 and a 8 Or 2 10's as far as cutting the logs out of it. also What is a board foot is it width x lenght?
ANY HELP WOULD BE APPREATIATED I HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO BUT I HAD A LOGGER HERE TO DO THE PART I AM NOT SURE ABOUT.
JON

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Postby cowboy » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:08 am

HI Jon

I think it depends on what typ of wood it is. I am not shure on hard woods or wood for deminsional lumber. But for popular and other pulp wood trees They always cut them in 8' lengths since they are going to grind them up for making plywood and osb.


I am a firm beliver in selective cutting. Unless I want a field or a road. I do not take out more than 1 out of 3 trees in a area. I find the trees grow faster when they have to grow up to the light. If you are in a cedar swamp you may have to take a clump here and there as it gets so thick in them.

About six years ago my Uncle talked my dad into selling off all the pulp wood on a 40 acer lot. It is now un useable. You cannot even walk through it the deer can barley make it through it. It is so overgrown. The trees are growing slower too becouse their is so much compedition for nutriants. I need to take a picture bucuse its hard to describe. But their are probally 3-8 saplings per square yard. What a mess.

We have our own sawmill one of those wood mizers but are not professinol sawers we just cut for what we need for out own use.

Billy
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Postby Bob Underwood » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:09 am

Jon; have never logged but a board foot is 12" wide 12" long 1" thick. Also, I'm getting close to finnally using that mag coil I bought oh so long ago.

Bob

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Postby Mag Man » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:19 am

Yes Cowboy I will be doing selective cutting, I have about 30 tree's all together that will be takin. probly 8 to 10 cherry and the rest will be maple and ash, Mostly soft maple Becuase of the swampy ground the hard or sugar like the hills and dry land more than what I have. I logged about 8 to 10 years ago and now am going to take the ones that were left to grow bigger then and the ones that I did not see it nessisary to cut because they wanted half of what they were worth and ash is not worth that much. I am hoping to only take 14" and up and just take enough for what I will need to get my garage floor installed this spring. If there are some left over it can go to bills or toward a car I guess.
JON

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Postby Eugene » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:18 pm

The definitive answer would come from you local saw mills.

Neighbor cuts and stacks his own trees (logs) in 8' lengths. 8' appears to be pretty common in this area. Locally, I have seen lumber trucks with much longer logs.

Suggest checking with your state conservation office or state forester. Frequently they will come out and survey your property (trees) and provide excellent advice. Free.

Missouri has an on line service listing timber prices. I haven't check the site in several years.

Eugene

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Postby rondellh » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:13 pm

Jon, There are several things that come into play when scaling and grading lumber. It is best done by someone with plenty of experience.

You can usually have several buyers come in and look at what you have and they can bid on it.

Generally the longer the log the more lumber the higher the value. But you have to take into considerations such as flaws that will bring the log down in grade. A shorter log of a higher grade will usually bring better money.

Hard maple is in demand now and the price is high. Cherry is most always high too. Soft maple is generally stable in price but much lower. I believe ash is low too with all the cutting from the Emerald ash borer.

I would call some one i trust for advice before i ruined any valuble lumber.

Rondell

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Postby SONNY » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:00 pm

See if your local mills have certain specs. that they would want logs cut to!--it may vary in different areas!---I cut mine at 8 foot, as there aren't any mills around here!---I have a bell-saw M-14 pto mill and have cut 15 footers without any problems,----I even TRIMMED a buddies low-boy planks that were 17'-6" long, so it's kind of hard to say what your ares needs them to be!
Since most of our trees here don't grow that straight, I devised a short log holder on my mill to cut 4' long stuff and smaller diameter too.
Got some real nice furniture grade cherry by doing the short cut logs!
Hope this will give you some ideas as to what you may be able to do on your end!! thanks;sonny

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Postby George Willer » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:43 pm

Jon,

A couple thoughts. I've never sold a log, but I think the logs are scaled according to whatever the log will square to on the small end. They usually yield much more but log scales favor the buyer. The longer the log, the smaller the small end. :?

A log should always be cut 6" or so longer than the nominal length.

Ash is great lumber for many purposes and should probably be harvested before the trees die, which they will soon. Any ash too small to saw will make great firewood but it shouldn't be transported because of the borer. Ash can sometimes be stained to resemble the currently fashionable red (swamp) oak.

Cherry is my favorite cabinet wood. I have it sawed even the shorts, crotches and whatever isn't commercially desirable. That's where the real beauty is. Most of our extensive cabinet work in our home is from such cherry. It makes the shop smell good too! :D
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Postby Rudi » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:47 pm

Mag Man wrote:Yes Cowboy I will be doing selective cutting, I have about 30 tree's all together that will be takin. probly 8 to 10 cherry and the rest will be maple and ash, Mostly soft maple Becuase of the swampy ground the hard or sugar like the hills and dry land more than what I have. I logged about 8 to 10 years ago and now am going to take the ones that were left to grow bigger then and the ones that I did not see it nessisary to cut because they wanted half of what they were worth and ash is not worth that much. I am hoping to only take 14" and up and just take enough for what I will need to get my garage floor installed this spring. If there are some left over it can go to bills or toward a car I guess.
JON


Boy... that breaks my heart to see such fine woods probably going to end up as slash..

Soft maple or the swampy maples, are not that undesireable. They are pretty hardy, they are good figured woods, and also when green turn some pretty neat thin walled bowls, vases and stuff. Also, when cut and then air dried properly, they can yeild what is known as spalted or molded grain which is also highly prized by turners, carvers and other specialty furniture makers. Why??? Because it is so hard to come by. It ranks up there with burls...

I hunt through the forest whenever I can for standing spalted hardwoods.. burls, crotches, weather and lightning splits as well as other highly figured woods.

Sometimes a tree is worth much more than a logger thinks it is.. in fact, when it comes to hardwoods, they are probably worth 5 - 10 times as much. But there is a secret. You have to cut it right, air dry it properly so that it seasons straight, and you have to have patience. Proper advertising in local papers or even the wood trades publications can yield some good profits for those willing to do what is required.

Same goes for your Cherry and as well for the Ash. They are highly prized in many markets.. I know I certainly prefer them for what I like to build.

Selective cutting is the ONLY Responsible Method of maintaining our forests. I have 20 acres thereabouts that are not cleared, and about 18 acres of woodlot that I have been working on for years to create a sustainable mini-forest on my land. It is finally paying off. I allowed a logger to come in and cut about 6 acres at one time (the year I was diagnosed, and the income saved my property and fed my family), but I will never ever allow another mechanical logger on my property. It will only be guys with chainsaws, a small tractor to yard out the timber and I will mark the trees for cutting.

In areas where pests can be a concern, as George stated, wood should not be shipped out of the area so as not to contaminate other forests...
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Postby Mag Man » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:27 pm

See as George mentioned this is one of my problems. I got $300.00 straight through for my ash back the last time they logged. I have some real beautiful ash tree's some the last time I had about 250 board feet in just the 10 foot but logs. BUT the problem is now with more and more shovel axe and what ever handles being made out of fiberglass along with the baseball bats being made from aluminum. Plus this dam bug that's killing all the ash tree's I think it would be stupid of me not to cut them now and get the most I can. I have my neighbor to help me with a lot of the questions and he may even let me borrow his swamp D4 it was a regular D4 that he widened the tracks on to float in the swamps. But his heart is out of time and he tires to easy right now to do anything but run the skidder and because of that he is backed up. I do know that the timber is worth more right now in the winter than it will be in the spring. I have a lot of cherry tree's but there are only 10 or so that are big enough at this point but if I live another 20 years there will be some nice growth if these big wood peckers will stop killing them also. I may even haul a few logs at a time on my trailer to get the most I do not want to do all the work and get ripped off like the last time. I did not know any better and sold my cherry for $500.00 straight through. After a trucker bought them and paid me a logger that was here told me I had at least 3 tree's that would make veneer and were worth about $1600.00 to $3000.00 at that time and he said I had more that were worth the $1000.00 a board foot at that time then I had below the $500.00. I do know a lot about this not as much as a full time logger but I know how to cut the tree's properly and save every inch no wast. I would not do it at this time if it were not for the ash dying and being worth less and less I also have about 10 or so hard maple's but they are limy and need to grow for another 10 years or so. Then I have about 10 or 15 softy's to take just well because I would like to get as much as I can right now to pay the spring taxes and finish my shop.
THANKS GUYS JON
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Postby CubitisNH » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:50 pm

Jon: You've gotten some very good advice from a number of forum members,here's my two-cent's-worth. I scale(measure)most of the logs we buy at our small(10,000-15,000 bd.ft./day)sawmill.We cut more hardwoods than softwoods-ash,hard and soft maple,yellow and white birch,red oak and a little cherry and basswood. Most comes in 8-10-12 ft. lengths with 4-6" of trim on them. Logs with a lot of taper to them should usually be cut 8' to minimize loss of scale as most common (International Rule)method of scaling measures diameter of small end to estimate volume.We still use the NH Caliper,which measures diameter at mid-point of length of log. Your best advice is still to ask the mill owner or log buyer where you intend to sell your logs.Good luck,Mike
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Postby Don McCombs » Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:35 pm

Everything you wanted to know about the Emerald Ash Borer.

http://www.lancasterfarming.com/node/301
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