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How are the segmented belts on machine tools?

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Paul_NJ
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How are the segmented belts on machine tools?

Postby Paul_NJ » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:23 pm

Merry Christmas!

A friend gave me an old 9" Atlas/Craftsman metal lathe last year and I've finally developed the interest to restore and learn to use it. I'm told it was manufactured back in the 30's. First thing it needs are new belts . . . if I used the segmented type belts I've seen advertised I wouldn't have to remove the spindles to get the belts out/in. I'm nervous to disturb the drive spindles of the machine because I've read the bearings are babbit sleeves, and I think it would be wise not to disturb something I know anything about.

Does anyone have experience with segmented belts? I've never used them. I hear they come in 1/2 and 5/8 inches width. Maybe I'll get really lucky . . . does anyone have experience with this lathe? Any suggestions and ideas would be appreciated

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SONNY
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Postby SONNY » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:56 pm

Some people have all the luck!!!!------A lathe,----can't find one here! As to the seg. belts, I have a horiz. mill that has them on it and they seem to work fine on it what little I have had a chance to use it, so I would go ahead an use them on the lathe rather than have to re-aline the thing,----Unless there are caps on top of the bearings, then you want to mark which cap goes where, and what direction it pointed to! thanks; sonny

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Postby Paul_NJ » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:14 pm

Hi Sonny

There are caps on the bearings as you said so perhaps I will try to take it apart. Sounds like if I put it back together the way it comes apart I won't lose any alignment. Apparently the main spindle has babbit bearings, and the top spindle has some sort of roller bearings. Perhaps I should try to at least take the top apart to clean the roller bearings as I don't think this lathe has had much use or maintenance in a long time. I'm going to try the segmented belt at least on the motor belt since there was none there when I got it, so it would be more difficult to get the correct size.

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Postby junkman1946 » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:10 pm

Segmented belts are just as good as regular belts, although the fastest Ive ever spun one was about 3600 r.p.m. They are however very pricey. The one I bought was sold by the link. Frank
1948 Cub F,1962 Original,1971 C.C.model86, WheelHorse and C.C. mini pulling tractors, C.C. models1450 , 682,106,123, Ariens GT17 with loader,Jacobsen Powermax loader and backhoe 8 more Cub Cadets in the shed waiting to go under the knife and spray gun.

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Postby johnbron » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:26 pm

My neighbor used to work in a Safeway ice-cream plant before he retired. The plant used segmented belts on there machinery. At the time I needed a new fan belt on a M-F loader I had, but to replace it you had to take the front end off the tractor including the radiator. :shock: He brought home some segmented belt material from work and I put it on the tractor reluctantly thinking it might last a week. Well that belt was on there for 10 years with no problems and it was still on it when I sold the loader. I would have no doubts about using them again. :P
Then came Bronson

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Postby LiL' Red » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:33 pm

Paul, I've been running a poly-v on my 12 in Sheldon for about 4 years, seems like I have to run it a little tighter than a regular V belt or it will slip. If it were me I'd remove the bearing caps and use a good quality V belt.
Ran a newer version of that lathe for many years in my shop. You will need to fasten it down to a heavy base and level it both ways. Keep your cuts very light and it will be a good one to learn on. Parts are always on ebay and cheap.
Did you get the set of change gears with it?

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Postby LiL' Red » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:40 pm

Oops, one more thing, ebay item 200061591660 is the perfect companion for that machine. Matter of fact it is an excellent manual for anyone who owns a lathe, it is a wealth of information, especially for the beginner.
Enjoy your new toy.

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Postby George Willer » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:52 pm

I hope you find the tailstock wherever the change gears are. It looks like a clog heel tool holder on it. I like them much better than the common Armstrong/lantern used on most small lathes.
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Postby Paul_NJ » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:25 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips.

Sonny: Decided to remove the spindles . . . I marked and labeled the caps before I removed them. Decided after 75 years the lathe probably could use some maintanance and new lube.

Lil Red: I went and looked at the manual you mentioned, and put in a bid. Looks like a good place to start, as I have little metal lathe experience. I pulled the caps tonight, and got the belts off, labelling the shims locations. I'll see what NAPA can do for me tomorrow for new belts. A few change gears came with the lathe, but not many. I believe they're only for threading? Thanks for the encouragement.

George: I do have the tailstock, but only a couple gears. I'm looking at a tailstock chuck on ebay (MT2 I believe). Thought that would be good to have.

There's some surface rust covering most everything not painted. Scotchbrite pads helped a little, but didn't remove any rust below the surface. Can I use wet/dry paper on it?
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Postby LiL' Red » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:38 am

Paul, don't use sandpaper on the bed of the lathe, rub it with scotchbrite and call it good. Sandpaper will cut uneven and cause inaccuracy in use of the lathe.
Yes it should be 2 MT.
Having all or most of the change gears is very important as they govern the rate of power feed on the lead screw. Inside the cover there should be a chart giving you the tooth count of all the gears.
You will also need a live center, no need to buy an expensive one, an import will do fine for what you are going to do.
As George says, stay with that tool holder, it is much more rigid than an Armstrong or rocker type. Only problem is that all of your bits have to be sharpened to the same height.
If you have more questions feel free to repost or send me a pm.

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Postby George Willer » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:45 pm

LiL' Red wrote:Paul, don't use sandpaper on the bed of the lathe, rub it with scotchbrite and call it good. Sandpaper will cut uneven and cause inaccuracy in use of the lathe.
Yes it should be 2 MT.
Having all or most of the change gears is very important as they govern the rate of power feed on the lead screw. Inside the cover there should be a chart giving you the tooth count of all the gears.
You will also need a live center, no need to buy an expensive one, an import will do fine for what you are going to do.
As George says, stay with that tool holder, it is much more rigid than an Armstrong or rocker type. Only problem is that all of your bits have to be sharpened to the same height.
If you have more questions feel free to repost or send me a pm.


Paul,

That lathe is the fore-runner of my first two lathes. They allowed me to build many nifty things. I wouldn't even consider using an abrasive of any kind because of the possibility of screwing up the flat bed ways. Those flat ways are the biggest shortcoming of that style lathe. Maybe some chemical rust remover/converter could save the day?

The tool height setting is the biggest advantage of the clog heel IMHO. My tools are mounted in an angled slot in each intermediate block that allows the tool to be adjusted to align with the top surface of each block. That assures that each tool can be quickly changed and still be cutting on exact center.

My clog heel tool holder, like most of my tooling, is shop made. I use similar systems on both my lathes so the tool blocks interchange. The time the system has saved far outweighs the time it took to build it. The rigidity of the tool is a large side benefit. :D It even allows power fed cutoff. Don't try it with an Armstrong cutoff holder on that lathe.
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Postby Mag Man » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:51 pm

Wow George and a few other of you sure do know your lathe's. How about a how to forum on using them darn things. Mine is the worlds most exspencive magneto tester for now. I do not know how to make anything with it or actually know much a bout using it either. And a book will do me no good at all I cannot read and do. :( I have to do to learn. But thats a little hard when you do not know what to do. LOL anyone as confused as me?? :? I have a set of gears for threading but cannot even start to figure out how you do that either. :oops: The closest thing I ever used was in school to make a bowl. :P Or at the shop to turn rotors. :roll: So takes some pics of an easy job for me and tell me what kind of wood to use. :P Just kidding I know it was made to turn kinipler pin muffler bearing plastic? :lol: OK OK its a 9x20 metal lathe made by the good ol republic. :roll:
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Postby Paul_NJ » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:22 pm

Lil Red:
rub it with scotchbrite and call it good

I think you have a good point there! I may try some rust remover as George suggested, but I'm not going to put the entire bed into my electrolysis tank. I'll start watching ebay for parts as you suggested. Have to ask . . what is a live center for? Looking forward to learning how to use it for metal.

George:
That lathe is the fore-runner of my first two lathes. They allowed me to build many nifty things.


I'm glad to learn you know my machine . . . it is reassuring to know I have someone to turn to . . . a metal lathe is something I always hoped to learn to use, but right now is totally uncharted waters!
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Postby LiL' Red » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:30 am

Paul, a live center is inserted into the socket of your tailstock to supprt your stock while being turned. They are called "live" because they run on bearings and rotate with the stock, a regular center does not turn.

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Postby George Willer » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:42 am

LiL' Red wrote:Paul, a live center is inserted into the socket of your tailstock to supprt your stock while being turned. They are called "live" because they run on bearings and rotate with the stock, a regular center does not turn.


Regular centers can be either hard or soft. One of each is used for precision work between centers. The soft one is used in the headstock and trued perfectly for each use. The hard one is well lubed and used in the tailstock. This eliminates the small error introduced by the live center.

The live center is used in the tailstock for less demanding work since it doesn't require as much attention.
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