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Torquing bolts 35 ft. lbs +90 degrees?

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Brandon Webb
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Torquing bolts 35 ft. lbs +90 degrees?

Postby Brandon Webb » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:46 pm

My buddy is rebuilding a bombardier jet ski. The rod bolts called for 35 foot pounds plus 90 degrees. He let the torque wrench click and then gave the wrench another 90 degrees. I told him what the 90 degrees was for was for a bolt stretch guage. Newer GM LS1 engines like in the camaro's and corvettes use this or I wouldn't have ever heard about it. Can someone explain to me what this is for? Does it preload the bolt head without turning the threads, kind of like a lock washer keeping it from backing off?
Is he wrong giving the wrench another 90 degrees or is this the same thing the guage does? He doesn't want to go out and buy a $100 specialty tool just to use once, can he torque them to say 40 ft. lbs and do you think that would be ok? Do you think he overtorqued them by giving it the 90 degrees after the click. We were just worried before buttoning up the bottom end and dropping this thing in. It's supercharged, it would be a bad thing for it to crap out in middle summer. Thanks Brandon.

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Rick Prentice
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Postby Rick Prentice » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:05 am

Hi Brandon. Ford does the same thing with their head bolts on later cars. It had me saying " What's wrong with these moron engineers" :shock: :D :D The only logical thing to me, because otherwise it makes absolutely NO SENSE, is the torque wrenches are very accurate at lower readings(less friction where the bolt/nut meets the metal), and drop off at higher readings. They have you reach that 35 ft lbs, and the 3/4 turn must reach a more accurate finish point than just using the torque wrench to maybe 50 or 60 ft lbs.

That's the only thing that I can think of to keep me from pulling more hair out :shock:

I'm waiting to here some other theories :D

Rick
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Postby cowboy » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:46 am

It used to be the bolt strech was figured it at the specified torque. That is why you would see some head bolts with the shank smaller than the threads. And had to use the correct factory headbolt. But I have seen torque specks like that before but I do not know why.

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Postby Lance Leitzel » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:13 am

The only thing I can suggest is that he doesn't use that torque wrench for the additional 90 degrees turn. That will really wreck that torque wrench. Once they click, STOP. I'd guess to put a "normal" wrench on it and go for the additional 90 degree turn?
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Postby magnumpi » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:37 am

The "partial turn" after reaching a certain torque spec is quite common - I put new head bolts in my '01 Saab last Fall and the spec calls for a partial turn at the end of the required torque. I've always used the torque wrench as I thought that after the "click" is attained, it becomes a regular ratchet handle.......am I incorrect ??? Craig

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Postby cowboy » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:55 am

Craig I am not shure but I was told never to pull a click type torque wrench after it clicks. I do know where my brother works the torque wrenches have to be recalibrated every year.

Billy
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Postby magnumpi » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:00 am

Billy: It's entirely possible that you're 100 % correct !! I'm wrong a lot, but as a friend of mine says 'it's only a Saab" ! Craig

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Postby spiveyman » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:38 am

When I was puttin my engine back together a month or two ago, I was taught that with the click types you really should stop after it clicks. But if you still needed an extra 90 degrees, couln't you just set the torque setting higher and then just tighten the bolt an extra 90 degrees? Just so you dont have to switch to a regular ratchet? just wondering....
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Postby rondellh » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:03 pm

The torque turn method is very common and is more accurate than the torque method. The initial torque value is what has been calculated as the amount of force required to seat the fastener and the pieces it is clamping. The turn to yield value is what is required to provide the proper bolt stretch on the fastener.
If you have ever seen experts build race engines they will tighten the fasteners while measuring the bolt stretch with a dial indicator.
Here is some info on the various methods of tightening fasteners.

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/tighten.htm

I would also not recommend using the torque wrench to make the final turn on the bolt. Just you should never use the torque wrench to loosen a fastener. The torque wrench is not meant to be used as a breaker bar.
Also dont forget to always achieve the final torque measurement while you are turning the fastener. If the torque wrench clicks while you start to turn the fastener it is not accurate as you are the measuring breakway torque.


Rondell

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Postby magnumpi » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:36 pm

Before leaving this AM, I e-mailed a good friend who's a millwright at a large mfg co. in Mpls. His response was basically that if you had a wrench capable of 120 ft lbs and you were torqueing up to 30 ft lbs, you wouldn't damage the mechanism by going another 1/4 turn. Now if you torqued up to 120 and then decided to do another 1/4 turn, he claims you damage the mechanism throughtout the range of the wrench. He claims the most damage occurs with their smaller wrenches using inch lbs. I guess I'll use a breaker bar from here on out based on the quality posts here today. Thanks guys, Craig

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Postby Jack fowler » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:41 pm

When torque to yield was introduced in the automotive / light truck industry, most angles were in sequences of 30 and 45 degrees, so I used my breaker bar to do the angle tightening. Naturally the engineers were not happy with that so they decided to torque to yield at 55, 86 155 degrees and ect. With a breaker bar I couldn’t precisely torque fasteners to the proper specs so I invested in a cheap torque to yield tool thinking like everything else in the automotive world; things would change in the next five minutes. (My original torque to yield tool)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v688/Jackf/MVC-004F-1.jpg
This tool was so harassing to use, it almost took me an hour to install head bolts on a six cylinder engine. So next came this tool… a $450.00 Snap On torque wrench.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v688/Jackf/MVC-006F-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v688/Jackf/MVC-007F-1.jpg

Yes you can use it as a torque wrench and torque to yield wrench at the same time. If you can see the little speaker; it will announce and the handle will vibrate when the correct torque and the correct angle is obtained. As you can see it is set at 155° and it takes approximately ten minutes what it took an hour to do before.

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Postby dirt devil » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:06 pm

When I was in college for Heavy equipment we were taught that it was for simply to over come imperfections in the threads of the bolts and holes. Plus if the holes had any dirt in them.

I also agree with using the breaker bar to achieve the 90 degree torque plus.

Just me .02 cents

Dave
Dave


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