Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:12 pm
Ron:
I guess it is time to clear up some misconceptions about amateur radio and the so-called BCI/RFI problem. These transceivers no matter the age, must comply with FCC/IC(Industry Canada) regulations regarding Broadcast and Radiated Frequency Interferance. It is up to the individual amateur to ensure that his/her gear complies. This is usually not a problem with the newer gear (past 30 years or so), as the manufacturers ensure that all of the equipment complies and actually exceeds the minimum requirements.
For example. My Yaesu FT-101E sits exactly 3 feet away from my computers. My computers are NOT - TEMPEST Compliant, and yet are not affected by my rig in the transmit mode. Nor my printer/monitors/GC Radios/UHF radios or any of my other gear. (TEMPEST compliancy is the requirements for communication facilities that have been devised by NSA/CSE/GCHQ and other Intelligence Agencies in the CanUKUS Intelligence Community. These requirements for lack of a better word at the moment, ensure that there is ZERO radiated interference coming inot or exiting a communications facility. I am not sure if TEMPEST is still the benchmark or if it has been upgraded. A lot has changed in the Intel community since I left it in 1987
)
I am no expert, nor am a really good at explaining BCI/RFI. BigDog is probably better at it. Oh, it also applies to automobiles and telephones, so any of the Telcom or AutoElectrical guys might be able to explain it better. But, I will give it a shot.
First of all, 99 times out of 100, the BCI that neighbours experience is NOT due to the Amateur Radio station "leaking" into your electronics. It is actually your electronic/electric appliances that are the "leakees".
Seems that even though manufacturers have to ensure that their appliances/electronics do not cause BCI/RFI, they do not have to comply with ensuring that they do not accept BCI/RFI.
For a penny more in manufacturing, all these problems would be eradicated, but in a market driven economy, such corporate responsibility is not the rule of thumb. This poor policy has contributed to legal challenges/ruined friendships/lousy neighbour relations for many, many years.
Much of this interferance can be eliminated by simple "noise suppressors" that can be installed for very little expense. They are basically filters and in the case of your satelite dish, would become part of the co-ax feed to your terminal. Same applies to your TV antenna.
BTW, the Amateur Bands are well out of the TV and Satellite bands and usually pose no problems.
As to the problem of the commercial people trying to steal the Amateur Frequecy Allocations, well that is another story and another kettle of fish
I guess it is time to clear up some misconceptions about amateur radio and the so-called BCI/RFI problem. These transceivers no matter the age, must comply with FCC/IC(Industry Canada) regulations regarding Broadcast and Radiated Frequency Interferance. It is up to the individual amateur to ensure that his/her gear complies. This is usually not a problem with the newer gear (past 30 years or so), as the manufacturers ensure that all of the equipment complies and actually exceeds the minimum requirements.
For example. My Yaesu FT-101E sits exactly 3 feet away from my computers. My computers are NOT - TEMPEST Compliant, and yet are not affected by my rig in the transmit mode. Nor my printer/monitors/GC Radios/UHF radios or any of my other gear. (TEMPEST compliancy is the requirements for communication facilities that have been devised by NSA/CSE/GCHQ and other Intelligence Agencies in the CanUKUS Intelligence Community. These requirements for lack of a better word at the moment, ensure that there is ZERO radiated interference coming inot or exiting a communications facility. I am not sure if TEMPEST is still the benchmark or if it has been upgraded. A lot has changed in the Intel community since I left it in 1987
)
I am no expert, nor am a really good at explaining BCI/RFI. BigDog is probably better at it. Oh, it also applies to automobiles and telephones, so any of the Telcom or AutoElectrical guys might be able to explain it better. But, I will give it a shot.
First of all, 99 times out of 100, the BCI that neighbours experience is NOT due to the Amateur Radio station "leaking" into your electronics. It is actually your electronic/electric appliances that are the "leakees".
Seems that even though manufacturers have to ensure that their appliances/electronics do not cause BCI/RFI, they do not have to comply with ensuring that they do not accept BCI/RFI.
For a penny more in manufacturing, all these problems would be eradicated, but in a market driven economy, such corporate responsibility is not the rule of thumb. This poor policy has contributed to legal challenges/ruined friendships/lousy neighbour relations for many, many years.
Much of this interferance can be eliminated by simple "noise suppressors" that can be installed for very little expense. They are basically filters and in the case of your satelite dish, would become part of the co-ax feed to your terminal. Same applies to your TV antenna.
BTW, the Amateur Bands are well out of the TV and Satellite bands and usually pose no problems.
As to the problem of the commercial people trying to steal the Amateur Frequecy Allocations, well that is another story and another kettle of fish
Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:20 pm
N9KIN de VE9RHS
gm om..
Nice to see that there are a bunch of us here as well. As for letting your license lapse, I used to worry about that constantly, especially since our calls are linked to the license. Here in Canada now, we no longer have to worry about it. There is no more yearly licensing fee (and it was all just a tax grab anyways) and once licensed, you never lose it and the same with your call. The only way it will change is if you upgrade from a normal call to either a 2 letter suffix or an initial call sign.
One other phenomenon we have here, and one that I use a lot especially on the DX segments of the different bands is the special prefixes. It makes for some interesting DX and it is nice to be the one being chased instead of being lost in the pileup.
When you are working with a bare 100 watts and no linear, the kid without the boots gets rained out
Are you considering getting your ticket back?
KD5R, Alan
boy is that a familiar call.... I am going to have to boot up my old 486 (it has LogEQF on it and all my QSO's are there) and check on that call. I am almost positive that I have worked it many times in the past.
I too as I have said before really enjoy CW, but phone is also a lot of fun.
73's ar va e e de ve9rhs
gm om..
Nice to see that there are a bunch of us here as well. As for letting your license lapse, I used to worry about that constantly, especially since our calls are linked to the license. Here in Canada now, we no longer have to worry about it. There is no more yearly licensing fee (and it was all just a tax grab anyways) and once licensed, you never lose it and the same with your call. The only way it will change is if you upgrade from a normal call to either a 2 letter suffix or an initial call sign.
One other phenomenon we have here, and one that I use a lot especially on the DX segments of the different bands is the special prefixes. It makes for some interesting DX and it is nice to be the one being chased instead of being lost in the pileup.
When you are working with a bare 100 watts and no linear, the kid without the boots gets rained out
Are you considering getting your ticket back?
KD5R, Alan
boy is that a familiar call.... I am going to have to boot up my old 486 (it has LogEQF on it and all my QSO's are there) and check on that call. I am almost positive that I have worked it many times in the past.
I too as I have said before really enjoy CW, but phone is also a lot of fun.
73's ar va e e de ve9rhs
Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:29 pm
Thanks Rudi. That clears it up 
I was an "Intermediate Speed Radio Operator" in the army (Ft Jackson, S.C. trained). After spending lots of time laying in the mud with a morse code clicker thingy straped to my thigh, sending and receiving messages for some boot second LT (Early - mid 60's), I didn't want to ever get involved again!
Maybe that's why I blame the interferance on my neighbor (bad memories). Don't mind except watching pro football on Sundays or Flyers hockey. Both of which are over this year
Thanks ....................
I was an "Intermediate Speed Radio Operator" in the army (Ft Jackson, S.C. trained). After spending lots of time laying in the mud with a morse code clicker thingy straped to my thigh, sending and receiving messages for some boot second LT (Early - mid 60's), I didn't want to ever get involved again!
Maybe that's why I blame the interferance on my neighbor (bad memories). Don't mind except watching pro football on Sundays or Flyers hockey. Both of which are over this year
Thanks ....................
Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:03 pm
Rudi,
I have to put in my two cents in. I have to agree with you, but there was a few radios out in the past 20 years or so that were good radios, but were considered a "dirty radio"
A couple that I can remember was a Clegg Fm27B and one of the KDK 6 meter line that were extremely dirty radios. Another thing is with 6 meters being so close to the television band, this was understandable. Just one component loosing it set value, would cause interference. Like Rudi said, our radios have strick guidelines mandated by US FCC and Can. IC to avoid malicious interference to other devices. Now I have heard of poor filtering on home brew ampfilers running 2000 plus watts of RF output power. I'm not smart enough to build one and I figure if I can't talk on 150 watts, then I don't need to talk, therefore don't need am amp.
My first and last 6 meter single band radio was a Swan 250, 6 meter ssb radio built in 1965, this radio tore EVERYTHING up.
We had a Curtis Mathes, the gut-less wonder TV that must have had absolutely no filtering what so ever. Someone farting would have caused interference. Then also some of the cheaper line of wired telephones RF would get into them and cause all kinds of problems too. Usually on telephone interference a couple of toroid chokes on the line, will often get rid of the problem, or better known as filters.
I too, have all my transmitting equipment right next to the computers and the feedlines are about 6 inches away from the DSL modem and Router, with no problems what so ever on any band or any mode of operation. I run a LMR-400 coax and it has proven to me to be a low loss and a good grade of caox for all my low and high band operating.
BUT my cheap plastic case VRC, has no rejection at all. Then again, they build them so cheap that I only paid 29 bucks for it new at Wal-Mart.
Years ago and probably my first computer, which was a Radio Shack TRS-80 model III, neither my Yaesu FT-757 like the computer or the computer like the radio. So while one was on, the other was turned off.
Rudi that Yaesu 101 line is one of the most sought out radio ever, they hold their value and are built like a tank, thousands are on the air everyday. I have a Kenwood TS-450S, after my Icom 706 MK2G died on 10 meters, (my favorite band)
RFI is a something that most of us hams has fought one time or another. Not only that but we (or at least I) have fought stray signals on the receive. A leaking power line transformer all the way down to a florescent light fixture or a doorbell or furnace transformer, it has always came down to a bad transformer on my noise levels. Usually this is because a disk cap. had gone bad, thus letting the 60 cycles from the 110 volt line, not to be filtered.
Not only having to deal with the shack noise. I've had to deal with noise on my trucks too, with alternator, on board computer, electric fuel pump and/or ignition system noise. Even with everything going directly to the battery, still don't help much.
John
I have to put in my two cents in. I have to agree with you, but there was a few radios out in the past 20 years or so that were good radios, but were considered a "dirty radio"
A couple that I can remember was a Clegg Fm27B and one of the KDK 6 meter line that were extremely dirty radios. Another thing is with 6 meters being so close to the television band, this was understandable. Just one component loosing it set value, would cause interference. Like Rudi said, our radios have strick guidelines mandated by US FCC and Can. IC to avoid malicious interference to other devices. Now I have heard of poor filtering on home brew ampfilers running 2000 plus watts of RF output power. I'm not smart enough to build one and I figure if I can't talk on 150 watts, then I don't need to talk, therefore don't need am amp.
My first and last 6 meter single band radio was a Swan 250, 6 meter ssb radio built in 1965, this radio tore EVERYTHING up.
We had a Curtis Mathes, the gut-less wonder TV that must have had absolutely no filtering what so ever. Someone farting would have caused interference. Then also some of the cheaper line of wired telephones RF would get into them and cause all kinds of problems too. Usually on telephone interference a couple of toroid chokes on the line, will often get rid of the problem, or better known as filters.
I too, have all my transmitting equipment right next to the computers and the feedlines are about 6 inches away from the DSL modem and Router, with no problems what so ever on any band or any mode of operation. I run a LMR-400 coax and it has proven to me to be a low loss and a good grade of caox for all my low and high band operating.
BUT my cheap plastic case VRC, has no rejection at all. Then again, they build them so cheap that I only paid 29 bucks for it new at Wal-Mart.
Years ago and probably my first computer, which was a Radio Shack TRS-80 model III, neither my Yaesu FT-757 like the computer or the computer like the radio. So while one was on, the other was turned off.
Rudi that Yaesu 101 line is one of the most sought out radio ever, they hold their value and are built like a tank, thousands are on the air everyday. I have a Kenwood TS-450S, after my Icom 706 MK2G died on 10 meters, (my favorite band)
RFI is a something that most of us hams has fought one time or another. Not only that but we (or at least I) have fought stray signals on the receive. A leaking power line transformer all the way down to a florescent light fixture or a doorbell or furnace transformer, it has always came down to a bad transformer on my noise levels. Usually this is because a disk cap. had gone bad, thus letting the 60 cycles from the 110 volt line, not to be filtered.
Not only having to deal with the shack noise. I've had to deal with noise on my trucks too, with alternator, on board computer, electric fuel pump and/or ignition system noise. Even with everything going directly to the battery, still don't help much.
John
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:09 pm
John:
Yup you are right. The Swan's were really dirty radios. But then most of them are older than the hills now. Don't see too many more now. The Heathkits were pretty good if you paid attention to how you built one or repaired it. Personally, I am not smart enough to get in and fix or build one of these things. Maybe some day, but not now.
As for the Yaesu 101 line, yup they are pretty good. I have to find a mode switch for my 101. It is sparking a bit so it needs a front end rebuild. I think I might be able to handle that with some help. Course, I have to be able to find a mode switch - scarce as hen's teeth around here.
My 101-E will be my main rig for many years to come. I really like it a lot. I also cannot afford another HF rig right now, too many other things I would like to get before I can justify $1,000.00 to $4,000.00 on a used newer Yaesu. I sure would like the 1000 series radio though - man what a sweet rig.
I currently have the FT-101-E transciever, the FV-101-B VFO, YO-100 Scope and 2 Landliner Speaker/Phone Patch units. One of the Landliner's is for my 101. I also have an old HW-12 (?) 80 meter rig and a QRP kit rig as well. For 2 meters I have an old ICOM-IC-22 crystal set, a Azden PCS 4000 (POS), and a couple of Mocom's that I use for packet.
I have been looking at some of my gear, and I think I am going to try and concentrate on getting my shack in order again, in hopes of being back on the air in a bit. Will take a pic when it is all back together and post it!
Something I want to try is 10 meters. Haven't worked it much. Spend most of my time on 15, 20, 40 and 80 meters. Also, finally got a 160 meter dipole - will get it tuned as well and see what is up there.
73's fer nw
ar va e e
de moi
Yup you are right. The Swan's were really dirty radios. But then most of them are older than the hills now. Don't see too many more now. The Heathkits were pretty good if you paid attention to how you built one or repaired it. Personally, I am not smart enough to get in and fix or build one of these things. Maybe some day, but not now.
As for the Yaesu 101 line, yup they are pretty good. I have to find a mode switch for my 101. It is sparking a bit so it needs a front end rebuild. I think I might be able to handle that with some help. Course, I have to be able to find a mode switch - scarce as hen's teeth around here.
My 101-E will be my main rig for many years to come. I really like it a lot. I also cannot afford another HF rig right now, too many other things I would like to get before I can justify $1,000.00 to $4,000.00 on a used newer Yaesu. I sure would like the 1000 series radio though - man what a sweet rig.
I currently have the FT-101-E transciever, the FV-101-B VFO, YO-100 Scope and 2 Landliner Speaker/Phone Patch units. One of the Landliner's is for my 101. I also have an old HW-12 (?) 80 meter rig and a QRP kit rig as well. For 2 meters I have an old ICOM-IC-22 crystal set, a Azden PCS 4000 (POS), and a couple of Mocom's that I use for packet.
I have been looking at some of my gear, and I think I am going to try and concentrate on getting my shack in order again, in hopes of being back on the air in a bit. Will take a pic when it is all back together and post it!
Something I want to try is 10 meters. Haven't worked it much. Spend most of my time on 15, 20, 40 and 80 meters. Also, finally got a 160 meter dipole - will get it tuned as well and see what is up there.
73's fer nw
ar va e e
de moi
Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:40 am
no rudi, i dont forsee getting a new ticket.......i spend more than half the year without electricity and the other half so far behind on everything that there is just not enuff hours to sit in the shack.
my old call, n9kin, was picked by me the best way i could at the time. the fcc was handing out those big long calls like wd9xyz for new novices or generals, but tech still got the short "N" calls. when i went for my tests i went ahead and took the novice, tech, and gen tests but "failed" the cw portion for gen. that got me the short call. i went back for the next testing session and went ahead and passed the code to 20 wpm so if i ever wanted to get my extra i only had to do the theory part. like you i can copy around 60 wpm, but can only send at 25 or so. i never could get the hang of a bug or keyer and dont go so fast on a hand key.
as far as working on your own rigs, the new surface mount technology is beyond me too, but that little howes 80 meter kit was a snap and worked great on the first test. the tentec never needed any work except replacement of the string that pulls the dial up and down. since i used a very narrow part of the band (all my traffic nets were within a few kcs i mean hz of each other) that was never a concern.
who knows , i might find the time to go take all those tests again some day. and now you can just buy whatever call you like, so i could do it all in one trip. hmmmmmmmm maybe some day, but for now the whole station is subject to swap.
my old call, n9kin, was picked by me the best way i could at the time. the fcc was handing out those big long calls like wd9xyz for new novices or generals, but tech still got the short "N" calls. when i went for my tests i went ahead and took the novice, tech, and gen tests but "failed" the cw portion for gen. that got me the short call. i went back for the next testing session and went ahead and passed the code to 20 wpm so if i ever wanted to get my extra i only had to do the theory part. like you i can copy around 60 wpm, but can only send at 25 or so. i never could get the hang of a bug or keyer and dont go so fast on a hand key.
as far as working on your own rigs, the new surface mount technology is beyond me too, but that little howes 80 meter kit was a snap and worked great on the first test. the tentec never needed any work except replacement of the string that pulls the dial up and down. since i used a very narrow part of the band (all my traffic nets were within a few kcs i mean hz of each other) that was never a concern.
who knows , i might find the time to go take all those tests again some day. and now you can just buy whatever call you like, so i could do it all in one trip. hmmmmmmmm maybe some day, but for now the whole station is subject to swap.
Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:44 am
Rudi, I am N7LRG, my IOTA is 65. I like to hang out on 18.150 and 28.385...73's.
Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:04 pm
Freebird:
nice to meet another ham and IOTA fiend. As soon as I can get my shack up again, we will have to have a QSO
in the meantime, keep postin
nice to meet another ham and IOTA fiend. As soon as I can get my shack up again, we will have to have a QSO
in the meantime, keep postin