Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:53 am

pickerandsinger wrote:
Jackman wrote:"mowed down the Russian troops like sheep" he said the Russians just walk right in to them that was 1945 a
…..All the proof needed…By the way, what is your experience…..WW2, Korea, Nam….???? Just curious…...


Why does Jackman need to be a combat vet in order for his comments to hold any weight? Not understanding that one? As if only combat vets are allowed to opine here.

As a student of WWII, I'd like to clarify a few things since we are having the conversation.

1) To claim that the Russians were "protecting the world" is a bit of a mis-statement. Recall that they also invaded Poland on Sept. 1st, 1939 (amongst other atrocities and invasions). Far from "protecting the world."

2) Saying that this 14 year old kid (now a babbling fool, swine) somehow took part in the creation of the Nazi death camps is like saying that all Vietnam vets took part in the My Lai massacre. A far fetched statement in both cases.

3) Pope Benedict's story mirrors that of Jackman's German vet. Pope Benedict was drafted in the Hitler Youth at age 14 (all german boys were required to serve at age 14) and then later served in a Luftwaffe anti-aircraft battery and then finally in the infantry as the war ended. This does not, I would argue, make Pope Benedict swine or complicit in the Holocaust.

And yes, I'm a combat vet pickerandsinger. As if that need matter.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:50 am

Bigschuss wrote:
pickerandsinger wrote:
Jackman wrote:"mowed down the Russian troops like sheep" he said the Russians just walk right in to them that was 1945 a
…..All the proof needed…By the way, what is your experience…..WW2, Korea, Nam….???? Just curious…...


Why does Jackman need to be a combat vet in order for his comments to hold any weight? Not understanding that one? As if only combat vets are allowed to opine here.

As a student of WWII, I'd like to clarify a few things since we are having the conversation.

1) To claim that the Russians were "protecting the world" is a bit of a mis-statement. Recall that they also invaded Poland on Sept. 1st, 1939 (amongst other atrocities and invasions). Far from "protecting the world."

2) Saying that this 14 year old kid (now a babbling fool, swine) somehow took part in the creation of the Nazi death camps is like saying that all Vietnam vets took part in the My Lai massacre. A far fetched statement in both cases.

3) Pope Benedict's story mirrors that of Jackman's German vet. Pope Benedict was drafted in the Hitler Youth at age 14 (all german boys were required to serve at age 14) and then later served in a Luftwaffe anti-aircraft battery and then finally in the infantry as the war ended. This does not, I would argue, make Pope Benedict swine or complicit in the Holocaust.

And yes, I'm a combat vet pickerandsinger. As if that need matter.

Just my 2 cents.


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Agree 100!
Al

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:39 am

As I understand it, very few of the Germans were actually members of the ruling Nazi party. Many of the German citizens did not support the Nazis, but had no choice, they did not have the protected personal freedoms we have, nor the means to defend themselves.

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:06 am

pickerandsinger wrote:
Jackman wrote:"mowed down the Russian troops like sheep" he said the Russians just walk right in to them that was 1945 a
…..All the proof needed…By the way, what is your experience…..WW2, Korea, Nam….???? Just curious…...


Jackman wrote:
"mowed down the Russian troops like sheep" perhaps that part was not explain enough :? , the person I met was simply telling of a terrible time in his life the details about being a German youth and drafted on the German side at 14 years of age did not come out until I said he looked too young to have been a WWII vet, I think he was surprised by my guessing his age , prior to my guess on his age the story was just about being a soldier in WWII the details came out after , he was not bragging a bit :!: , from that delivery I went straight to my Dads house which was literally right down the road and and told him about the person I just met , He found it interesting not a insult or slap in the face as he too was a WWII vet served as an Infantry officer in the Philippines 1941-1945 and at the same time he was in his Dad also served in Europe Italy,France Germany 1941-1945 as an Officer, his Dad was also and Officer in WWI serving in France the time in between the two wars was spent as a civilian , imagine that at 48 years of age my Grand father re entered the military again to serve ,






I did my time 9th Infantry and a nuke site in Germany do I rate now :?: btw while i training at Ft McClellan Alabama there was a cool artical in the Stars and Stripes newspaper about Rommel's Grandson , seems that after WWII the surviving members of his family came to the US and by 1980 Rommels Grandson was a member of the US Army , you could probably Google that :idea: any way back to tractors for me :worthy:

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:45 am

My negative response to this post, had to do with INCLUDING and COMPARING by doing so, German soldiers with our Allied soldiers during WW2….Any way you look at it, there were Allies and Enemy soldiers..A German soldier who took the lives of Allied troops is an enemy soldier,whether he was 14 or 40…(Whether you like Russians or not they were Allies)...….If the Germans had won the war with a bunch of 14 year olds, we wouldn't be making this post and discussing this….My reference to asking about Jackmans experience, has to do with just that….Its easy to read and quote and base your opinions on what someone tells you are the facts but they are not necessarily correct…If you want to use Mai Lai as an example ( although I think it is inappropriate IMHO )…You kinda had to be there to pass a complete judgement…I wasn't in Mai Lai,by the way, so I'll leave it alone...War is Hell…If you were an American Soldier in WW2 that " undeserving 14 year old who mowed allied soldiers down like sheep, would have put a bullet right between your eyes if he could have "….I wonder how your attitude would have been had you have seen that happen to someone else…Thus the question….No dis-respect intended….And it does matter if you've been there, BTW…I stand by my post…At this point I wish everyone a Happy 4th of July or the correct terminology " Independence Day"….And thank all the Veterans out there who protect our country against the evils of the world…In regards to Catholicism and WW2, both Hitler(sorry to say) and I are, were Catholics….And I never heard any mention of Pope Benedict saying " He mowed them down like sheep" either….

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:14 pm

pickerandsinger wrote:My negative response to this post, had to do with INCLUDING and COMPARING by doing so, German soldiers with our Allied soldiers during WW2….Any way you look at it, there were Allies and Enemy soldiers..A German soldier who took the lives of Allied troops is an enemy soldier,whether he was 14 or 40…(Whether you like Russians or not they were Allies)...….If the Germans had won the war with a bunch of 14 year olds, we wouldn't be making this post and discussing this….My reference to asking about Jackmans experience, has to do with just that….Its easy to read and quote and base your opinions on what someone tells you are the facts but they are not necessarily correct…If you want to use Mai Lai as an example ( although I think it is inappropriate IMHO )…You kinda had to be there to pass a complete judgement…I wasn't in Mai Lai,by the way, so I'll leave it alone...War is Hell…If you were an American Soldier in WW2 that " undeserving 14 year old who mowed allied soldiers down like sheep, would have put a bullet right between your eyes if he could have "….I wonder how your attitude would have been had you have seen that happen to someone else…Thus the question….No dis-respect intended….And it does matter if you've been there, BTW…I stand by my post…At this point I wish everyone a Happy 4th of July or the correct terminology " Independence Day"….And thank all the Veterans out there who protect our country against the evils of the world…In regards to Catholicism and WW2, both Hitler(sorry to say) and I are, were Catholics….And I never heard any mention of Pope Benedict saying " He mowed them down like sheep" either….


I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on a few things, but I do appreciate your thoughts.

One thing we have in common is our appreciation for Farmall Cubs! :wink:

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:46 pm

Bigschuss wrote:One thing we have in common is our appreciation for Farmall Cubs!

And that is where this conversation needs to focus.

This post has gone from a simple act of kindness on Berlin's part to the very edge of political differences. Let's end it there before it gets any uglier. I'd hate to lock this thread since it started out as someone (Berlin) doing a good deed. Let's keep it focused there.

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:33 pm

I totally agree Barnyard , I never intended for the post to turn in the direction that it has. I have deepest respect for the Americans who served in all capacities during that war and all wars and conflicts and I had an oportunity to honor a few WWII vets .

Berlin

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:29 am

Bezirk wrote:I totally agree Barnyard , I never intended for the post to turn in the direction that it has. I have deepest respect for the Americans who served in all capacities during that war and all wars and conflicts and I had an oportunity to honor a few WWII vets .

Berlin
Thank you Berlin for the remembrance of our WW2 soldiers….I had a whole family full of them…It was a kind and heartfelt gesture…Hope to see
you in the fall…..Dave..

Re: The stories from WW 2 vets

Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:10 am

Thanks Dave:
Looking forward to seeing all of our NE Fest friends in October, and also the "Tug" friends in August. This will be my first "Tug".

Berlin