This site uses cookies to maintain login information on FarmallCub.Com. Click the X in the banner upper right corner to close this notice. For more information on our privacy policy, visit this link: Privacy Policy
NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS: Be sure to check your SPAM/JUNK folders for the activation email.
Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
A month or so ago I picked up a couple JD 212’s, a 78 and a 83. (for those not familiar with JD’s they have K series Kohler 12 HP engines) Thanks to gas tanks with nothing but water in them, both fuel pumps are bad. (see pic. 1) Being a cheap skate I’m not about to give Deere something in the range of $140 or Kohler about $80 and not even e-bay $30 for new one’s.
So I decided to try a rebuild myself. With both of these pumps, other then clean up, only the check valves were no good. In pic. 2, I show, and more or less explain what I did.
Where I need help is, I need a glue that will not be dissolved by gas. At this time the last washers (part 5) are not quite tight enough of a fit to stay in place. I did put a couple stake punches in the inlet one which probably would be enough to hold it. But on the outlet side staking it was enough to keep the seal from sealing. There was enough room to put a staked second washer though and that may hold. I don’t feel though that they are tight enough of a fit once the engine is up and running, so possibly the need for glue there. I do have an idea to use the outer part of the original check valves though which would probably eliminate the need for glue there. But I would still need glue to fasten the springs to the seals. I’m not sure that they need to be fastened together but on the original check valves the springs are held captive by the metal cage. So I think it probably would be best to do so also.
I have tried the pump by hand, using silicone to hold the parts together and I think it works every bit as good as the original. Of course that could change when installed.
I did think that when compared to the original check valves that the holes in the fender washers may be to small and reduce the flow. So I did some measuring, The washer hole is equal to a loose fit # 22 drill, (.159 dia.) the hose nipples are equal to a loose fit #21 drill, (.157 dia.) so no problem.
Right now I'm waiting for the gas to eat up the silicone so I can experiment with my other idea using more of the original check valve. Hopefully someone can clue me in on some gas proof glue.
(edit; I also posted this on my other favorite site wfmachines.com)
So I decided to try a rebuild myself. With both of these pumps, other then clean up, only the check valves were no good. In pic. 2, I show, and more or less explain what I did.
Where I need help is, I need a glue that will not be dissolved by gas. At this time the last washers (part 5) are not quite tight enough of a fit to stay in place. I did put a couple stake punches in the inlet one which probably would be enough to hold it. But on the outlet side staking it was enough to keep the seal from sealing. There was enough room to put a staked second washer though and that may hold. I don’t feel though that they are tight enough of a fit once the engine is up and running, so possibly the need for glue there. I do have an idea to use the outer part of the original check valves though which would probably eliminate the need for glue there. But I would still need glue to fasten the springs to the seals. I’m not sure that they need to be fastened together but on the original check valves the springs are held captive by the metal cage. So I think it probably would be best to do so also.
I have tried the pump by hand, using silicone to hold the parts together and I think it works every bit as good as the original. Of course that could change when installed.
I did think that when compared to the original check valves that the holes in the fender washers may be to small and reduce the flow. So I did some measuring, The washer hole is equal to a loose fit # 22 drill, (.159 dia.) the hose nipples are equal to a loose fit #21 drill, (.157 dia.) so no problem.
Right now I'm waiting for the gas to eat up the silicone so I can experiment with my other idea using more of the original check valve. Hopefully someone can clue me in on some gas proof glue.
(edit; I also posted this on my other favorite site wfmachines.com)
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
-
- Team Cub Mentor
- Posts: 20336
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
- Zip Code: 65051
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Mo. Linn
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Your local auto parts store sells fuel pump kits for Kohler engines, including the K301. Also fuel pumps for Kohler engines.
I have an excuse. CRS.
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Your local auto parts store sells fuel pump kits for Kohler engines, including the K301. Also fuel pumps for Kohler engines.
I don't think they sell them for less then a dollars worth of parts.
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
-
- Team Cub
- Posts: 17214
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
- Zip Code: 55319
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: MN
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
birddog wrote:Where I need help is, I need a glue that will not be dissolved by gas.
My first thought was JB Weld. About any epoxy would probably be OK.
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Thanks Jim. I had thought about JB weld but it seems to me I tried it once before (I think to seal a gas tank) and it softened up. I suppose though maybe it was mixed wrong or wasn't cured enough when the gas came into contact with it.
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
-
- Team Cub
- Posts: 11817
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
- Zip Code: 80501
- Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: CO, Longmont
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Mark, Several years ago I made a quarter sized wafer of JB that was left over. After letting it harden overnight, I put it in a jar with gasoline that sat on the workbench for most of a year. I would periodically check it and could see no observable change in the surface. I wouldn't hesitate to use JB in a gas environment.
Bob
Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
First an update on pump #1. I decided to try to get by without any kind of glue. What I have done is added a couple more stake punches in the washers. Now they seem to be holding pretty good. The only thing is I tried it with just the single staked washer on the outlet side and the valve seal just doesn't seem to seal tight enough. It pumps good once there's gas in it, but I had to put my finger over the outlet to get it started. I think what I'm going to do is pull it apart and go back to two washers on the outlet side. Also I think I'm going to get two new washers and put them in place and mark them for the stake punches so I can get better placement. I think I'm going to go with four on each side of the washer just to get a little more hold. I also installed another o-ring in each valve, just a bit bigger ID then the spring OD. I think that should help keep the spring centered on the seal, seeing that I'm not using any glue to keep them together.
Here's a picture of the assembled top of the pump. (before my final changes)
Here's a picture of the assembled top of the pump. (before my final changes)
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Now on to pump #2.
What I did here was repair two original check valve cages. (between the two pumps I had two cages in repairable condition) I started by using a Dremal tool to remove most of the pot metal or whatever was in there that wasn't part of the stamped cage. Then I soldered a #8 x 19/32 OD washer too the cage. (after installing the spring and seal) I had to make two new gaskets also for the check valves too seal against. (pump one didn't need any because of the o-rings) I filed down the solder on the inlet valve, so it would seal against the gasket. It pumps real nice by hand.
What I did here was repair two original check valve cages. (between the two pumps I had two cages in repairable condition) I started by using a Dremal tool to remove most of the pot metal or whatever was in there that wasn't part of the stamped cage. Then I soldered a #8 x 19/32 OD washer too the cage. (after installing the spring and seal) I had to make two new gaskets also for the check valves too seal against. (pump one didn't need any because of the o-rings) I filed down the solder on the inlet valve, so it would seal against the gasket. It pumps real nice by hand.
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
- Rudi
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 28706
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
- Zip Code: E1A7J3
- Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1968 Cub Lo-Boy
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
McCormick 100 Manure Spreader
McCormick 100-H Manure Spreader
Post Hole Digger
M-H #1 Potato Digger - Circle of Safety: Y
- Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM
- Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Mark:
Excellent. I got a couple Kohlers as well... so this will eventually be helpful. I like to fix things instead of replacing them so if I can do that, that would be the first thing that I try. Keep us posted.
Excellent. I got a couple Kohlers as well... so this will eventually be helpful. I like to fix things instead of replacing them so if I can do that, that would be the first thing that I try. Keep us posted.
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1425
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:02 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
Today's fuel might not be compatible with some of the materials used in the old pumps.
I was thinking about buying a nos USA made fuel pump for my Kohler KT17 but was told it wouldn't last long.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141944185181?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
I was thinking about buying a nos USA made fuel pump for my Kohler KT17 but was told it wouldn't last long.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141944185181?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 3369
- Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:48 pm
- Zip Code: 28081
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: NC, Kannapolis
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
I know this is different, but when I got tired of the wheel horse not using all of the tank capacity after the original pump warped and rebuild parts NLA. Went tot local commercial mower emporium an purchased a crank ase pressure driven pump for Kawasaki engine on x-mark mower. Problem solved! About $18.00
"I'd rather be a mechanic in the shop"- Henry Ford
252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)
252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)
- Stanton
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7760
- Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:56 am
- Zip Code: 64070
- Tractors Owned: 1942 Farmall AV, serial #87025
1947 Farmall Circle Cub, serial #2116
1948 Farmall Cub, serial #46066 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Lone Jack, MO
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
I've gone through (2) Stens fuel pumps for my KT-17 since owning it. They want to leak gas into the crankcase or not pump enough fuel into the carb to keep up with demand.
Thanks for your thread. Informative!
Thanks for your thread. Informative!
- birddog
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am
- Zip Code: 54515
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: WI, Catawba
Re: Help for you and me - Kohler fuel pump
I've had it up and running now and it runs at full throttle with no problem. I haven't had a load on it yet though, so I still can't say it's a 100% success.
The first time I started it I did have to put my finger over the outlet side to get it to start pumping. (the outlet check valve doesn't quite seal 100% - the spring and seal I used were both a little deformed) I put less then a gallon of gas in it and the hose from the tank was already on the pump. I'm thinking if I had let the gas start to flow through the hose before connecting it, it may have pumped rite away.
The first time I started it I did have to put my finger over the outlet side to get it to start pumping. (the outlet check valve doesn't quite seal 100% - the spring and seal I used were both a little deformed) I put less then a gallon of gas in it and the hose from the tank was already on the pump. I'm thinking if I had let the gas start to flow through the hose before connecting it, it may have pumped rite away.
Mark "birddog" Birdeau
Return to “Other Tractors and Machinery”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests