Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

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Postby Fordlords » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:29 am

I'm thinking the difficulty with the PTO clutch might have been because the new GX'es SEW is supplying are 2006 models that are a little different from the 2005 one I put in my tractor.

As far as I know, all the 682 and 782 tractors used the same design Warner PTO clutch. I had no difficulty mounting the PTO clutch to my engine, and after setting it to the instructions it worked properly the very first time and worked without any problems all this mowing season. In fact the entire engine setup performed without a hitch all season, and got even smoother as it broke in. But I am hearing of some problems with the PTO clutches going on the '06 engines and apparenty SEW is aware of this too. I guess the hardware was designed for the '05.

I thought my '05 had hydraulic lifters, but that was one of the big changes for the '06 GX engines, my '05 has manual valve lash adjusters. But darn it's so mechanically quiet running I can't tell. Still a thumbs up for the new hydraulic valve train as it is maintenance free. One change I don't like with the '06 is the control mounting being on the output end up front around the muffler. On the '05 it is above the flywheel near the firewall which makes more sense to me. But SEW is taking what they get from Honda and adapting it, so they go with what they have to work with.

There is a significant amount of engineering that goes in to these retrofit kits and likewise some adaptation that goes along with it for each tractor, it is one of the reasons I stated on my posts on the subject that good basic mechanical skills are required on the buyer's end to install one of these engines properly. Not rocket science, but not a walk in the park either, plus they are expensive so you have to invest some time to do it right.

For me the Honda just put that new spark of life back in to the 682 and has taught the old dog a few new tricks- one of the biggest is saving a lot of gas over the old flathead Kohler, which is no laughing matter anymore. Don't get me wrong I love old cast iron Kohler's, just not the KT17 series 1. And the best part is the Honda engine looks so natural under the hood of a 682/782 plus the sides of these tractors are competely shrouded so no one even knows what is under the hood unless they lift it. Form and function blend together well with this perticular engine retrfit kit, looking at some of the others SEW sells I think the Cub '82 kit is one of the better ones in that respect.

-Fordlords-
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Postby Leadfoot » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:53 pm

Fordlords wrote:
As far as I know, all the 682 and 782 tractors used the same design Warner PTO clutch.

-Fordlords-


The only difference between the 682 and the 782 is the 682 has a manual implement lift, and the 782 has a hydraulic implement lift. Otherwise they are totally identical. 8)
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Postby Snotzalot » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:56 pm

I had no problems installing the PTO onto my 682 last week. So far nice motor, smooth, and definitely different in the sound. The muffler outlet does hit the grille and will require some heat to relocate.
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Alignment

Postby fraso » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:37 am

How did you align the engine with the driveshaft?
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Postby Snotzalot » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:49 pm

Centered it in the frame, eyeballed it and bolted it down. I don't detect any wobble of the driveshaft.

Had it out today mulching leaves, didn't miss a beat.
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Postby Snotzalot » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:44 am

Keep in mind the rag joint should/will absorb any minor out of alignment conditions.
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Postby Bermuda Ken » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:00 am

Looking at the photo of your pto clutch field coil, you better get ready to buy a new one soon. The exposed windings are going to short out soon and cause a shower of sparks and clutch failure........
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Postby Fordlords » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:47 am

The cracking and flaking of the plastic coil coating is common on those old Warner PTO clutches. You can preserve their life by covering the outside of the coil surround with several thin coats of silicone RTV gasket maker. The wire windings themselves are covered with an insulation coating too, so a few cracks of that hard plastic is really no reason for panic- believe me when I say it, even a well worn old Warner PTO clutch is a lot tougher then the ones they are putting in new tracotrs today :o

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Honda length

Postby Snotzalot » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:09 pm

Any chance the Honda is a bit longer than the KT17? I'm installing my QA42A and the pulley can't be slid far enough forward to properly align with the PTO.
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Postby fraso » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:23 pm

I believe that the Honda is a bit shorter even though the crank snout is a bit longer. The PTO pulley on the Honda should end up in approximately the same location as the Koehler.

Is there a chance that you may have positioned the engine a bit too far forward on the frame when you bolted it down originally?

What is the QA42A? Is it the snowthrower? If so, I'll be finding out in the next few weeks if I've got the same problem.
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Postby Snotzalot » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:15 pm

Yes it's a snow thrower. All I could possible move back is about 3/8" or so, using their installation bracket and the drive shaft is positioned correctly. So it's a bit longer IMO.

I'll take a photo of the spacer and post. Shop on the corner is making it. I'm not using a factory pulley so the offset of the pulley might not be as great as the factoy pulley.

The exhaust has to me modified a bit to clear the grille.
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QA42A Gear Box spacer

Postby Snotzalot » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:22 pm

Here are the photos of the spacer. It's 1/2" thick steel and it worked very well.

Image

Image
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Postby Fordlords » Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:27 am

My 682 luckily made it through 35.5 hours of season #1 with the Honda engine without any problems. Getting about 1.5 acres/gallon on gas when mowing, it never ran short on power for any of my summer tasks. I switched over to Gator blades on the mower deck early in the season and they make a very noticeable improvement in the 44C deck's cut quality. It still discharges with these mulcher blades, but the clippings are very minced and not clumpy like straight blades.

I did an end of season maintenance on the tractor, the oil drained clean and the plugs both had a nice tan color to them. The air filter is a bit pricey for this engine at $17.00, (It did not need to be changed yet), but the oil filter cross references to a $4.00 Fram available at Wal-Mart that I changed with the break in oil change and it worked fine so I put one of these on again.

I shut off the fuel valve, ran the carb out of gas, put a bit of Stabil in the tank, and took the battery out. Should be ready for springtime work :D

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Postby Snotzalot » Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:49 pm

Do you have the Fram number handy for this oil filter?

Only thing I have left to do is move the exhaust pipe so that it misses the grille.
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Postby Fordlords » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:52 pm

Oil filter is Fram # PH3593A

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