Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:17 pm

So Rudi--what are you doing in your SPARE time. lookin good. Grump

Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:08 pm

Spare time? what is that? wouldn't really know as I haven't had much of that in say the last 30 years or so....

Anyways, here is an update on what we have been doing...


These are all 16 of the first 24 feet of the 32 foot trusses. They will be going up on the roof Monday morning I hear.. yeah.... 8) :lol: :!:


A little play time with the dozer.... :lol:


It was nice working in a nice warm shop tonight. Right now it is -10C or 14F and windchill is -17C

Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:58 pm

Looks good!! I recently put up a 40 x 60 insulated building. Before the doors were on I had already brought my industrial A in and got it ready to overhaul. I dont know what kind of light you have planned, but I used Metal Halide lights. They save energy and put out a lot of light (one 400 watt light covers 400 sq ft) I found some on e-bay and saved a lot of money( I saved $100.00 a fixture). I hope to have some pics soon.

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:43 am

Rudi wrote:Rick:

Here is another question. What about say flat track with steel pulley/v-belt style casters? Although, I have a feeling that is more for interior doors than exterior.

I also plan on having a wooden cap to cover the track, bogies and straps... help keep the weather out of the hardware and make it look a tad prettier..

Rudi the problem of a flat rail is that it is stiff in only one direction. On the image below, if the track is oriented vertically (A), the flat track can carry a large vertical load but would to be attached to the building every foot or so, depending on the load. The same holds true for a horizontal alignment. (B). In this case the lateral load could be large, but the vertical load would cause the rail to sag.


What you want is a rail that is stiff in 2 dimensions. On of the benefits of angle iron is that it is stiff in several directions. Whether you the angle as a "V" or as an inverted "V", the angle iron will remain stiff for both vertical and horizontal forces. The same things apply to "U" channel and any combination of these channels. A "C" channel is just 2 U channels put together.

Given the environmental constraints, I think that metal sheaves/pulleys running on an inverted "V" angle iron would be the best bet. The shape of the angle would shed water, snow, ice, dirt, etc. better than either a C channel or regular V.

The metal on metal contact between the sheave and rail has the lowest friction of any material combinations. This makes the door easier to move.

I hope this helps you in your design decisions.

Rick (Aggie Engineer) Dulas

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:45 am

Just for the sake of throwing in one more confoundment, Since most of the force on the rail is vertical, placing an angle iron as a V or inverted V puts most force the weakest direction on the angle iron. Angle iron has more strength directly against the flat sides.

Consider doing it like drspiff's most recent drawing but substituting angle iron in place of the rail "A". let the horizontal part of the angle point towards the wall. Since most force will be vertical, an angle iron with one side longer than the other can be used with the longer side oriented vertically.

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:51 pm

Here is Jim Becker's revision* of Dr. Spiff's drawing of Rudi's idea for using metal sheaves as door trolley wheels.

*as I understand Jim's comments.

Rick (I love digital revisions) Dulas

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:10 pm

Jim, Rick:

Excellent. I see possibilities here... very doable. Next question, can I use the brackets and shafts (substitute sheaves or similar for the bearings) ??

Got the Trusses up on the roof today. Been really lousy weather. Gusty - 70 kph minimums, rained a lot yesterday to boot, gusty again today and tomorrow it is supposed to be -5C with winds... It is making this a rather interesting project.

Sure wish I would have had the help in the summer when it was warm :!: :!: :idea:

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:32 pm

Rudi wrote:Jim, Rick:

Excellent. I see possibilities here... very doable. Next question, can I use the brackets and shafts (substitute sheaves or similar for the bearings) ??

I'm not sure I understand the question you are asking. Typically on overhead door hardware, the axle is peened to the inner race of the wheel bearing and the outer race is an integral part of the wheel or roller. So I'm not sure what use you could make of these parts if you don't use the C Channel.

The easiest way to make overhead trolleys is to use a 1/2" bolt as the axle. Get some cheap needle bearings, 1/2" ID and either 5/8" or 3/4" OD. Get sheaves having either 5/8" or 3/4" bore to match the needle bearing OD. For as little movement as this door will get, I'd look for the cheap cast aluminum sheaves/pulleys.

The bolt head is towards the building
a brass washer is slid on the bolt
the sheave with bearing is slipped on
another brass washer is slid on
the door hanger slides over the 1/2" bolt threads.

The brass washers act as a poor man's thrust bearing for lateral loads, and the needle bearing is the load support. By careful use of washers and spacers, you adjust the location of the door until it hangs straight down.

You will probably have no more than 3 doors and likely only have a pair. Using this setup with 1/2" bolts etc. will require 2 wheel/hangers per door. So we are looking at:

4 1/2" bolts that are "long enough"
4 1/2" needle bearings
8 1/2" brass washers
8+ 1/2" nuts
4 hanging straps bent to fit
Assorted washers and/or spacers.

Does this help? Or have I completely missed the boat, again?

Rick (Sidewalk Superintendent) Dulas

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:54 am


No you haven't missed the boat, but neither did I explain it right. After 1-1/2 hours in pitch dark lifting trusses onto the pole barn structure, I was too pooped to explain stuff correctly.

I should have included that the bogies that I have are not the peened type but are held in place by cotter pins. These are the heavy duty commercial grade overhead door roller bogies... and that is what I was asking .

I will try to get some measurements and a sketch of the channel and pics of the parts some time today.

Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:23 pm

Well on goes the continuing saga of the New Home For My Cubs story.... :roll: :wink: :D

Needless to say, I haven't had the time to take the pics of the bogies, but have been concentrating on getting the building sheathed in and weathertight before the snow comes.

:oops: Missed that boat.. :big shy: Already snowed for the second time. This time the cold has come with it. -19C or about -2 to -3F with the wind chill, and up on the scaffold, -19C is coooolllldddd brrrrrr :!:

Friday was a long day. Worked till midnight, and had everything set up for an early day Saturday. Boom truck arranged for and a small group of chums to help. Needless to say, with the overnight storm - 2-1/2" of snow fell, it put paid to that idea.

So, with the slow progress yesterday and the good progress today, we are a lot closer to being weathertight than before. IF the weather holds, maybe by mid-week we can have it all weathertight.

Here are a few pics of the progress we have made so far.

This is what we woke up to yesterday morning.


This is what we got accomplished yesterday. Got 5 more trusses up and it took almost 3 hours in the biting cold.


Alde finally was able to get over here about 1:30 and we started working about 15 minutes later. By 3pm and ready for a Hot cup of Timmy's we only had 2 trusses left to put up. It gets dark by 5pm, so we really don't have a lot of time left.


Almost 5pm and Alde is up nailing on the first few rows of strapping. Going to strap every 12 inches.. then cover with 1/2" Douglas Fir 4'x10' sheets.


Pretty soon there will be Cubs in that thar barn :!: 8) :lol:


That will be nice :big smile:

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:56 am

looking better all the time Rudi

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:18 am

Now that be progress. :D

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:22 am

Looking good Rudi. Spent some time in my "New Shop To Be" this weekend. Got more wiring roughed in, the front wall is just about finished as far as insulation/sheathing. I now need to get busy and get the dust collection system & air lines plumbed in so I can get the ceiling area prepped. Still hoping to have it done by Xmas. Sure was nice out there yesterday, with the front wall pretty much completed, I was able to keep it at around 60-65 degrees with a kerosene heater, can't wait to see how warm it will stay once I have the ceiling insulated, should be able to easily keep it warm once that's completed.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:49 am

pretty soon Rudi, your shop will be looking sharper than mine. :!:

Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:52 am

Looking very very nice. I really enjoy all the updates and photos etc.