Generator and Cut-Out

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Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:57 pm

Well got me genny back from my local AC Delco Service Center.. oh... let's not talk about price ok :oops: :shock: Oh well....put it this way, I had 2 6 volt Generators checked. One got a good cleaning a repaired bearing, a new pulley and one of the connections inside had to be redone. The other one got a new field coil, a new bearing, coat of paint and a good checkup. That was the most expensive repair. The 12 volt Starter/Generator for my 129 got overhauled and tested. Needed a little bit of work and is now in top shape and got a paint job. I also got a new Cut-Out for Ellie-Mae all at the same time. Biggest cost is labour.. 3 hours at $60.00/hr - ain't cheap. The rest is in line.. but double the labour and you got it about right. Not bad I guess for 3 Generators and a Cut-Out.

So needless to say I want to make sure I do this right

I was reading Jim's article in Red Power on Cut-Outs and Generators. I learned a few things I think. I learned that if you have a Cub with a battery.. be it magneto or battery ignition with no lights, the Field Terminal on the Cut-Out is connected to the Field Terminal on the Generator. But... if you have a Cub with lights added into the mix, then the Field Terminal on the Cut-Out is ignored and the wiring instead goes to the 4 position light switch. Do I got that correct?

I am down in the shop working on Ellie, and just wanted to make sure that I am understanding this correctly. Also, I do not have an A Terminal listed on my new positive ground Cut-Out. There are three tabs one is labeled L, the next Bat and the next Field. I am assuming the A Terminal from the Genny is connected to the L Terminal on the Cut-Out yes :?:

Thanks guys :D
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Eugene » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:42 pm

I'm having server problems. But check the following:

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... index.html

Go to service manual GSS-1310, pages 46, 47, 48. Pages show a 3 brush generator wired with a cutout (2 connections) and a regulator (3 connections).
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby John(videodoc) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:33 pm

Its not cheap taking these items in. I feel your pain. I took a starter in to local shop. They replaced, basically everything twice and still didnt work. Ended up buying a rebuilt one from Brian. Trust me i wont go back to the local shop. Wishing Josh was back in business.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:40 pm

This is what I am working from:

Image

Looks to me like the field from the gen heads back to the switch. Just want to make sure so I don't fry a very expensive new part. :oops: :roll: :( that would really bum me out :cry:
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Bigdog » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:43 pm

If you have lights the field grounds through the 4 position light switch.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks BD:

Gonna wire it up now. Oh.. L = A ????
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Bigdog » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:57 pm

I would have to assume so. Since the other terminals are marked with common terminology. You could remove the cover and confirm that the L terminal is indeed the Gen terminal.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:15 pm

I removed the top cover BD, but there is nothing I can see to indicate what L means. Tom said it meant Load, so I am assuming that it goes to the armature. All others are correct.. IF I look at the old Cut-Out, and assume that the Bat Term is moved forward, then it all lines up. It is an AC Delco Postitive Ground 6 Volt -- and it says on the bill RCP 13227 Regulator... so I have now no clue what it is.. a cut-out or a regulator... I guess either way don't make a whole lot of difference.. does the same job.

I still gotta polarize it too if what I am thinking makes sense... as it is a generator that is getting polarized and not the regulator/cut-out... thingy..
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:53 pm

Rudi, i do a Google search, and according to it, that RCP 1327 is a regulator, not a cutout. Look on the bottom for the gen or A terminal. When you had the cover off, how many coils did you see? A cutout would only have one. Regulator, 2 or 3. The L lead supplies power to lights and ignition for later tractors
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby g19605 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:11 pm

Rudi,
I'm pretty sure the L terminal is for the lights. I'm not certain why this is done but I believe it is for one of the following reasons: 1- to increase the generator output current when the lights are on OR 2- to relieve the cutout contacts from having to carry the lighting current. I thought that I knew when I saw your question but the more I thought about it the more I realized that the brain has lost some of its long term memory. I thought that it was only short term memory that decreased with age??
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:12 pm

John:

It does not look like my cut-out at all. There are more coils than in a cut-out. It looks like a regulator... which really isn't what I wanted, but I guess that is what I got.

So, if that is the case.. is the L terminal the one that is supposed to be connected to the A Terminal on the Generator?

Dang.. ok.. now what. My brain is too tired tonight to try and figure this out. If it is actually a regulator, how does that work with a 4 position light switch? Which diagram? Darn, and I thought I had it figured out tonight.

I thought L meant lights as well, but then my brain is not really electrically minded..

OK electrical guru's I need help I do not want to toast this regulator or whatever it is. Where does the A terminal go? The filed still goes to the switch yes? Battery well that is pretty well self explanatory - it goes to the right side of the ammeter when looking from the front of the tractor. The field would go to the resistor on the switch. I am really at a loss now.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:58 pm

Do what John said. The "L" terminal should NOT be connected to the generator. Look at the last illustration on page 9 of RPM then look at the bottom of your new regulator. You can wire it like the first illustration on the same page and leave the L terminal with no connection. Or, you can wire it just like the "late" diagram in the FAQ.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:42 am

Jim:

I checked the article, got it right here beside me. Looking at the last illustration clearly shows that the regulator illustrated is a 4 terminal regulator, has 2 coils. BTW, I really enjoyed this article.. again it is just filled with neat information that helps me learn. Can't ask for much more. Slowly getting there.

The difference between what I have and what I had.. is that there is an extra coil and the Batt terminal is not on the rear of the cut-out it is on the front between the L and F terminals.

I finally was able to get a couple decent hits on when googling RCP 13227.

RCP 13227 REGULATOR, PRESTO 6V

Image
SPECIFICATION:
VOLTS: 6
MODEL TYPE: PRESTOLITE
FEATURES/NOTES: 2 Unit. Positive Ground. Cut out. Step Voltage Controls


SUBSTITUTE: N/A

OEM XREF:
RFT6-4 - AMERICAN BOSCH
2S7407 - CATERPILLAR
1118265 - DELCO
1118305 - DELCO
1118433 - DELCO
1118436 - DELCO
D-643 - DELCO
D-647 - DELCO
D-660 - DELCO
8-293 - PRESTOLITE/AUTOLITE
13227-1 - Old RCP Number


The lugs from Left to Right are L B F

So, it says it is a cut-out but has 2 coils... different. There is NO Gen terminal at all. Which is why I am thinking the L terminal is actually the Gen terminal.

I called the shop and they are reading up on it as he is confused as well.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:15 am

I need pictures, pictures of YOUR unit not catalog pictures.

Need to see the side with the 3 terminals with the markings showing, need the opposite side, need the bottom without the bracket obstructing the view.
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Re: Generator and Cut-Out

Postby Rudi » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:19 am

Jim:

Going to go get em in a few minutes.
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