Snow Tires

Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:17 pm

I have a Model 782 that I use for clearing snow with my snow thrower. I was using my turf tires (Goodyear Terra Tire, 23x10.50-12) with chains and wheel weights in previous years but I found that the tire chains don't work very well on my new concrete driveway. I bought a set of Carlisle Super Lug tires (also 23x10.50-12 on new rims) last year but they didn't work very well either, even with the wheel weights, probably because the rubber was too hard and tires were too wide. Luckily, the Super Lugs were an improvement for summer grass cutting because I have some swampy areas where I lose traction and get covered in mud with the turf tires.

While cutting my grass this summer, I ended up putting a huge gash in one of my Super Lug tires and, much to my dismay, discovered that Carlisle has discontinued this tire. The CarlisleTru Power seems to have superseded the Super Lug but it's a slightly different tread pattern and size. Nanco also has a similar 23x10.50-12 tire but it's much smaller than the Carlisle. Rather than having 2 dissimilar tires on my tractor, I thought I might buy a pair of ag tires (like the Tru Power) for tilling and sell off my good Super Lug.

For the winter, I got to thinking that I should be looking for as narrow a snow tire as possible. According to Carlisle's product data, the MTD Diameter for the 23x10.50-12 4 ply is 22.9". I see that there is a winter tire in a 155/80R13 (22.8" overall diameter & ~6.1" wide). Since I have a couple of 13" automotive rims collecting dust, I thought I might make an adapter to mount the automotive rims onto the CC hubs.

Has anyone else tried adapting automotive tires onto their Cub Cadet?

Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:47 am

I have not tried auto wheels yet, except on Brutus but they were the same bolt patter (Jeep wheels). I did put a pair of 8 lug farm implement wheels on Bee-atrice. I made an adapter out of 1/4" plate steel. It used 4 of the 8 lug holes to adapte to the wheel and then the inner 5 lug holes to bolt to the cub. I made my own spacers to get a little wider stance on it also.

Here is the adapter:

Adapter.JPG

Here is the spacer.

Spacer.JPG

My spacers are not welded but you could weld the small pipes to the large pipe coupler. The small pipe is 3/8" gas pipe as it is smooth inside of it versed water pipe that is not. The large coupler is a 3" pipe coupler.
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Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:48 am

Here is what it looked like once mounted on the cub.

IMG_0003.JPG
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Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:52 am

If you want a narrower tire that will "bite" thru the snow why not just use 5-1/2" wide by 12" diameter Cub Cadet wheels from the early models that used the 6-12 tires, and you don't have to make any adaptors. The tires are available as ags or a turf tire that has a tread pattern similar to the old Firestone Town and Country mud and snow tire, but keep in mind, nothing is going to perform like the turf tire with chains (specially the "2 link " chains that have the cross chain every 2 links apart). Since the snowthrower, or a blade, leaves a thin film of snow on the surface, the tractor does not have the weight, grip, or " bite" to dig thru it, specially if the snow is heavy, "wet", or icy like we get around here. If it is dry or powdery, you might be in business. The same size wheels from other brands of garden tractors may work, most of them have the same bolt pattern (5 lug on a 4-1/2" bolt circle), but some have the valve stem hole on the inside of the wheel (JD and some Wheel Horse) that may present a clearance problem if your 782 has disc brakes.

Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:05 am

I have not thought of trying the narrower CC rim. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible and going this route would mean I would be in for another set of rims and Carlisle tires. I have no idea what the rims would cost but my guess is the Carlisle tires (whatever tread pattern) would not be cheap. Checking some on-line tire stores, the 155/80R13 snow tires seem to go for $40-50 each. I also suspect that modern automotive winter tires would be more pliable in cold weather than the Carlisle tires and would therefore have more grip on my concrete driveway.

If I were to look at getting a set of 5-1/2"x12" rims, what does a Tru Power 6-12 tire cost in the USA? A local tire shop here in Fort Erie wants $135 for a 23x10.50-12 Tru Power and $89 for the 6-12-4ply.

BTW, I checked Carlisle's turf tire catalog and they do not appear to currently offer a 6-12 tire or anything else suitable for a 5.5x12 rim.

Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:57 pm

The 6-12 Carlisle Tru Power is $58 US in the M.E.Miller Tire catalog, www.millertire , and the catalog says to call for pricing on the 6-12 Turf, which probably depends on if they have any left in stock. For some narrow wheels, check with forum member "keithd". He lives in Ontario. You can send him an email or a Private Message by clicking on Members in the upper right corner of this page, and then look under the "K's". I think he is on the next to last page of the K listing.

Re: Snow Tires

Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:52 am

Paul,

Along these same lines.......I have a Farmall Cub with an extra set of front rims. Seems like I remember the Farmall Cub rims will fit on the Cub Cadets (mine is a 1200 CC). If so, I already have a set of mint radial tires already on the spare Cub rims. Those were originally used in place of front turf tires when I was mowing with the Cub.

Would these be good for pushing snow if they had chains on them? I have a box of chains I bought off eeeee-bay, but haven't had time to size them up to the tires and rims I currently have. That sure would be a nice "gimme" if it would work.

Thanks!

Re: Snow Tires

Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:49 pm

SundaySailor
The Cub front wheel has the same bolt pattern as the Cub Cadet rear wheel, but the stock Cub wheel is rather narrow (used a 4.00X12 tire). I don't know how the tires you have would be with chains, may be too narrow. If you are going to us chains why not just put them on the stock Cub Cadet wheels and tires. The biggest problem with a Cub Cadet (or other brand of garden tractors) pushing snow is the 1/2" or so of snow that a blade or thrower leaves on the drive/walk etc., is just enough to to make it slick and not enough to get any traction unless the tires have chains. Might be able to get by with ag tires or some type of snowtire in the dry powder snow up north, but not with the heavy, wet, snow we normally get in the south. That 1/2" of wet snow is just like being on ice as far as tracton goes.

Re: Snow Tires

Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:28 pm

I fabricated tire chains for my 29"-1250-15" tru power ag's on my cub cadet 70 and we actually put cross links on every other side link. Now its up on the chains all the time its biting in.

Re: Snow Tires

Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:44 pm

Having done more research into snow tires for my 782 CC, the prevailing wisdom on other CC forums is to use turf tires and chains. Most postings discussing this don't specify whether the tractor is being used to clear snow from paved or unpaved driveways but the photos seem to indicate that there are paved driveways being cleared. No-one seems to have had good success with plain ag tires and adding chains isn't as effective with lug treads. One fellow mentioned using 13" automotive studded snow tires on trailer rims but later-on reported that he is using chains as well. My problem with slippage on concrete might have had something with too much air pressure and not enough weight.

Although the automotive snow tires still seem to me to be grippier on pavement than ag tires, I think it would be more challenging to add weights to these rims. Although some sort of mounting system could be fabricated for holding weight-lifting weights, these weights would still have to be purchased and they seem to cost about $1/lb. At least it would be easy to add wheel weights in multiples of 45 lbs per wheel.

A member of the IH Cub Cadet Forum reported good success with ATV snow tires (http://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/106/126965.html). He is using AMS Swamp Fox tires & wheel weights and no chains. I think the narrower size (compared with my 23x10.50-12s) does help a lot. Loading the tires in addition the wheel weights is probably a good idea.

Re: Snow Tires

Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:50 pm

I used my Cub Cadet 149 for years with both a snow blade and the QA42A snow blower. I tried several different tire combinations. My driveway is mostly asphalt, with a concrete apron at the garage. The 149 is similar size, weight and power to the 782. Here is what I found:

- You need a minimum of two sets of wheel weights on the back axle. I had two sets of the CC cast iron weights, 26 pounds each, 4 total for around 100 pounds of additional weight on the back axle. (I weight about 230 pounds). WEIGHT IS THE KEY!!!! If you get enough weight on the rear axle, the tires won't matter.

- 23x10.50 turf tires with chains, and the weight mentioned above, will go anywhere, even in Buffalo, NY snow. However, they will scratch up your driveway, both asphalt and concrete, when the tires slip. Yes, they will still slip.

- 23x10.50 ag tires without chains work nearly as good as the turf tires with chains on pavement and snow. On ice, they slip like they are bald. Add chains, and these too will go anywhere, just like the turf tires. However, I found that I liked the ag tires without chains for my general snow plowing because they did not scratch up my driveway when the tires slipped.

I tried a set of the 23x8.50 turf tires with chains, and felt that they were no better than the 10.5 wide tires. That was the narrowest I wanted to go because I thought the tractor looked odd with the 8.50 wide tires. The 6" tires would look even more funny.

If it were me, and I was still using the tractor to plow snow on my nice new asphalt drive (or concrete in your case), I would have a set of new AG tires, and run 2 or 3 sets of weights for my snow plowing. I would mount one weight on the inside of the rim, and two on the outsides. You can do this by mounting the weights, while the rim is off the tractor, then bolting the rim back on the hub. The weights are made with a large enough opening to go over the hub. Or, fab up a weight bracket and hang suitcase weights off the back.

My dad and my grandfather both plow with a Simplicity Legacy 2-wheel drive tractor with 26 x 12.50 turf tires on the back and a 60" snow blade. Neither of them run tire chains, however they have a weight bracket in the back and 4 - 45 pound suitcase weights. They can push snow all day long, no problem.

I now have a Simplicity Legacy XL tractor (4x4) and a front end loader, but I have turf tires. I run NO weights at all, and can clear 2-feet of snow, but I have 4-wheel drive. My bigger point is, the right amount of weight, and you'll get the traction that you want.

Good luck!
Bill

Re: Snow Tires

Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:49 am

Seen this on Ebay today. It has Cub wheels on the rear of it.

Cadet with Cub wheels.jpg
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