Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Farmall Super A, AV, 1939 - 1954

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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:15 pm

I was going to guess $450, split the difference between asking price and what I would have offered.

What is the prefix on the engine number, FAA or IAA? Looks like the number itself is 173827, which would be late '46. That agrees with the "P" date codes you found. Your magneto serial number is from July '46.

The square axle and INTERNATIONAL name plate agree with it being an international rather than a Farmall. Decals were all replaced after it was repainted so their style tells you nothing about the tractor. The decals on the other tractors in your most recent post were made up by somebody, never came from the factory like that. The rod under the gas tank is part of a pneumatic lift-all, not a foot accelerator. I see no parts of a foot accelerator.

Wonder if the back is from a different tractor than the front. Check for other date codes on a variety of large castings. If there are big differences, it suggests parts of 2 tractors. What is the bottom paint color? Do the other layers show the full length of the tractor?

The upper petcock on the oil pan is the full level. The oil filler and vent cap should have a wire mesh in the center. Yours has rusted and fallen out. You might want to see if it is stuck in the tube.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:18 pm

By the way, I'll bet against the bottom layer of paint being yellow.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:15 am

Jim I'm going to have to agree with you on this being assembled from two tractors as the owner said he got this from his brother who had a bunch of them.
So I guess Momma was a farmall and Daddy was an International. :D I guess whatever decals I used would work. I'd bet the clutch got some attention when the tractor was split too as its perfect.
Thanks for the info on the numbers. I think its safe now to call it a '46. On the yellow, there is bits of yellow paint on every part on the front half of the tractor.
On the oil filler, yes I looked down into the pipe and the screen is there. As the gasket is leaking oil and is going to be changed that'll be grabbed when I do that and it will be soon.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Bill Hudson » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:31 am

Lt.Mike wrote:...
What I saw when I got there made me think it was a wasted trip. :roll: Man was this thing was rough, really scary looking. ...


Mike,

I think you need to remember your quote from your signature line.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"


You did very well and will have a lot of fun with it. Bring it to Cecil's next fall, all fancied up.

Bill
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:43 pm

Bill Hudson wrote:
Lt.Mike wrote:...
What I saw when I got there made me think it was a wasted trip. :roll: Man was this thing was rough, really scary looking. ...

Mike,
I think you need to remember your quote from your signature line.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

You did very well and will have a lot of fun with it. Bring it to Cecil's next fall, all fancied up.
Bill

Bill yes you've got me there and I do stand by that but as many would agree with me, time to do this kind of work is really hard to come by.
Not to pat myself on the back but when I do restoration work it ends up looking like a pro did it. I have a shelf full of car show trophies to show for it.
I will say I am good,...but a pro? Not really.
The difference is I take months to do what a pro does in a couple of days. I make up for skill with time and that time I just don't have anymore.
Man I see so many things, so many projects I'd like to take on. It really pains me but I've been saying no when I really want to restore this or that.
I went to look at this tractor as a second to my cub and take on some of the jobs the cub covers. This way I could take the cub out of service long enough to break it down and restore it over a couple weeks time.
I didn't really want a second project. So when I did see this "A" I stood, stared, and wrestled with with myself on it.
My will power broke down and my heart won out. Something about this tractor got me. (besides the price but that helped nudge things along)
I saw that same look in my wife's face when I brought it home. She was right there with me on this one. It brings her back too.
I'm still not sure where the time will come from but I know this one is definitely getting restored back to pretty condition.

Jim your on the money with the lift-all. Check out the lift-all manuals page six in this link. It shows the rod under the tank exactly.
http://farmall.winnfreenet.com/downloads.php
I'll leave the rod there as a novelty/conversation piece but I'm glad the rest of it isn't there.
Its one of those tractor options that are as aesthetically pleasing as a mechanical tumor.

I went out today and hit it the block #s with a brass brush. The prefix looks like its IAA (for International A right?)
This would make it a '46 International Industrial A1 tractor, well at least the front half. :wink:
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:58 pm

Lt.Mike wrote:Jim your on the money with the lift-all.

If I'm guessing, I say it is a guess.

In '46 the engine and chassis numbers on an A matched. So your front half is from tractor serial number IAA 173827. The back half is just some donor parts from who knows what. You probably still want to check the transmission case part number and some date codes on the back half to see if it is of a similar date to the front. Quite a few changes were made to the A over the years. Knowing what you have can keep you from getting tripped up when you need parts later on.

I would probably do any restoration work based on the known front half serial number. It would be nice to find the foot accelerator parts to complete the international configuration.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:09 pm

Oh I didn't think it was a guess but you nailed it and on such an obscure part. :worthy:
Yes it would be nice to find those foot throttle parts but wow, that would have to be really tough chasing down those parts.
Would be nice though. I'll just have to keep an eye out. They could be added anywhere down the road.
Where can I get or find date codes for these tractors? Its all easy to find here for cubs but the "A"s are something else.
Any reference books worth getting in your opinion?
Where ever the back half came from I got lucky. The trans shifts as smooth as butter and makes zero whine in any gear.
The brakes feel very good too. I'll post a want for the random parts it needs and be patient.
I don't think it'll get a strict restoration, that might test my sanity. It'll end up pretty though and at least be saved from a rusty grave.
Mike.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:44 pm

You know what the date codes look like and already found the easy one on the engine block. The one on the transmission case probably is near your left foot when you sit on the tractor. The final drive housings have it somewhere on the inner side, where you have to crawl under the tractor to see them. I think the one on the bell housing is on the left, not far forward from the transmission case. There probably is one on the cylinder head and the front bolster, but I don't remember the locations. The front wheels probably have one somewhere on the outer face, probably near the hub. They didn't always stay in the same place. Of course, the head, bolster and wheels are part of the "front" tractor so will probably be "P".

Manual suggestions are the same as the Cub. The first reference book is the Owner's Manual. In my opioion, the next two are parts catalog and a service manual (in that order). By the way,Rudi's server has a Parts Catalog (not the last edition).
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/A%20-%20B/index.html
The 140 sections of the preventive maintenance manual will get you a long way too. But remember the A has a Cub style fan hub.
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20Preventive%20Maintenance%20Manuals/index.html
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:25 am

So your front half is from tractor serial number IAA 173827

As I understand it, with Cubs if that serial # plate is missing thats it you'll never know the tractors origional Serial #.
Am I correct that this is not the case with the "A" model tractors? That I can take the #s IAA 173827 which I found on the block and stamp them on a repo plate and that it will be correct?
Mike.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Super A » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:00 am

Lt.Mike wrote:
So your front half is from tractor serial number IAA 173827

As I understand it, with Cubs if that serial # plate is missing thats it you'll never know the tractors origional Serial #.
Am I correct that this is not the case with the "A" model tractors? That I can take the #s IAA 173827 which I found on the block and stamp them on a repo plate and that it will be correct?
Mike.


I want to say pre-1943 tractors had matching engine and chassis numbers.

I would not make a repro plate, but that is just my opinion. I don't believe in altering serial number plates.

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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:33 am

Lt.Mike wrote:
So your front half is from tractor serial number IAA 173827

As I understand it, with Cubs if that serial # plate is missing thats it you'll never know the tractors origional Serial #.
Am I correct that this is not the case with the "A" model tractors? That I can take the #s IAA 173827 which I found on the block and stamp them on a repo plate and that it will be correct?
Mike.

Look at item 7 on this page.
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/A%20-%20B/TC-26E%20Parts%20Catalog/Page%2001.jpg

All the A/B tractors made in Chicago had matching serial/engine numbers. Production was moved to Louisville in '47 and after the first 1,000 tractors were built they quit trying to keep the numbers in sync. From the documents I have seen, it looks like the Louisville plant never again tried to keep numbers matching on any model, which included all Cubs. Consequently, you know that your front half came from tractor IAA 173827. What happened to the back half? Who knows. But given the front half was reused with another back half, it is unlikely that the complete back half is in use somewhere. There is also an open question as to where the serial number plate went. Possibly the original seat bracket, with the serial plate, has been bolted to another tractor. So, if you put that serial number onto a repro plate, you MAY BE duplicating an existing tractor. What are the odds it is out there? Who knows.

In general, I don't like the practice of stamping a number into a plate unless you also have the original plate with the same number. However, this is a special case. You know you have half of 173827. As long as you use the block with that number, I think your claim to the number is about as good as the claim of whoever has the serial plate. If I wanted to put a plate on it, I would be comfortable stamping that number. But you need to recognize the possibility of running into someone with the original plate on a tractor. If I ran into that situation, I'd remove the plate and let him have the number. I also think that if you sell the tractor with that number on a repro plate, you should give full disclosure to the buyer, so he knows the history of the number/plate.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:58 pm

I really appreciate the help you've given me. I also feel really lucky to have gotten my hands on a '46, the last year where the #s correspond.
I got to go over it in the day light today very well. Looking harder and scraping away I found a lot of matching yellow paint on the back half too and on everything.
The covering coat of red paint just held up better back there. Crawling under it I took a shot of the bottom of the final. Looks like federal yellow to me. I may have been wrong and this may be the matching half. In the other photo below you can see where the tag was removed to cut the seat mounts making room for the carryall.
I'm going to get in touch with the PO to ask him to check with his brother who did the work. I've been really lucky so far. Maybe his brother has the plate still on his work bench. Wish me luck.
the bottom of the final showing lots of federal yellow
Image

trimmed/ butchered seat mounts with the serial tag removed.
the carrier is well built but I wish it was made to work without carving up anything.
Oh ya have you seen the prices on the repo under seat tool box? Wow!
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby RaymondDurban » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm

Mike, if your not in any big rush to replace the cut seat supports, I believe I have an extra set back in Florida. I know I have one side with a SA tag still attached, but believe the other side is still laying around as well. Your are welcome to them. If you want them, next time I get back to Florida I'll mail them to you.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Lt.Mike » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:52 pm

RaymondDurban wrote:Mike, if your not in any big rush to replace the cut seat supports, I believe I have an extra set back in Florida. I know I have one side with a SA tag still attached, but believe the other side is still laying around as well. Your are welcome to them. If you want them, next time I get back to Florida I'll mail them to you.

Nope not in any rush at all and thank you!
:thumbsup:
Perhaps I can return the favor. I have a few odd cub parts about taking up space.
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Re: Went to look at the "A"...& came home with it!

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:19 pm

Is that some yellow showing on the axle extension too? I'm starting to wonder a bit. Is there ANY evidence of a foot accelerator? Maybe an extra slot in the floor?
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