Think I Really Blew It This Time

IH CUB LoBoy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your LoBoy related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm

I have a really bad habit of trying to tow things that should not be towed with the lo boy 154. I had a couple of trees cut down and needed to move the wood to the back of the lot. I Ioaded up my trailer and off I went. I hit a small ditch and the trailer got stuck and the lo boy died. Now it cranks over real hard and makes a noise when it tries to start. I think I may have broken something major. I towed the lo boy back to the shop so it is not stuck in gear. It will sit there until spring. So, what steps should I take to figure out what broke? I am thinking this will be the time for an engine rebuild come spring. I love this little tractor and if I was not such a bonehead I would not have this problem to deal with at all. The tractor is great for mowing but not so much for towing anything heavy. I think I have finally learned the lesson here. One thing I can think of right off is to drop the oil pan to see if I broke something there-crank-rod?? Pretty bummed right now but I will get her fixed and running again. Thanks.

Steve in Iowa
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby Bigdog » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:25 pm

Check your drive train carefully for some damage. I don't see that towing a load would have done any engine damage. With the oddball drivetrain of the 154 your problem could be between the engine and the clutch.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!

http://www.cubtug.com
User avatar
Bigdog
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 23814
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:50 pm
Location: OH, Stoutsville
Zip Code: 43154
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:32 pm

Thanks for the response Bigdog. I will check the drive train first. Time to buy a book so I can start looking things over. Cheers.

Steve
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby Rudi » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:19 pm

Steve:

67datroad wrote:Time to buy a book so I can start looking things over.


The manuals for your 154 are available on-line -- that is what I do -- manuals :D Number Series Cubs - Cub-154 Lo-Boy.

I know it has been a while since you joined our community so here is a refresher on what is available in resources/information to our members:

Image to Farmallcub.com :big smile: Forum Family. And you have come to the right place for all things Cub related. If you click on the Site Rules, Regulations, & Important Information, it will point you to :arrow: the Welcome Wagon wherein you will find links to many useful sites and topics. One of which is the Cub Manual Server. Enjoy!.
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby Eugene » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:27 pm

Starter/generator on the 154?

What kind of noise does the engine make when trying to start?

Could be the jolt moved the battery. Clean up all battery and battery cable connections. Also could have done internal damage to the battery.

Thinking. Had you done some structural or mechanical damage to the tractor - you would know it as it happened.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12121
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby Hamiltonbob » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:36 am

Hi Steve,
Take the pin out of the hub, directly behind the engine flywheel, which holds the driveshaft. First thing I would do is to determin if the noise is from the engine or drivetrain. !54's can mak a lot of different noises in the drivetrain.
Good Luck
Hamiltonbob
Hamiltonbob
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am

Thanks for all the replies. I will not get around to this for a while but will let you all know what I find. I ordered a manual from Binder Books. What ever went wrong I will get it fixed. It is nice to be able to ping the knowledge base here to get some ideas on what to look for.

Steve
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:40 pm

Well, I finally got around to some serious trouble shooting. I could not get the crank to turn at all by trying to rotate the crank shaft pulley. When I tried to start her with a fully charged battery all I got was the squealing of the generator/fan belt. So, I decided to pull the mower and drop the pan. I was expecting to see a broken crank or rod but my first glance everything looks to be in one piece. So any ideas on what could be binding things so badly the engine will not turn over? The PTO engages and releases as it should and I can spin the big pulley on the back. The tranny is not locked up as I put it in neutral to put it in the shed. Something is definitely binding some where. I guess I need to take a closer look at the engine internals. Time for a rebuild at this point. The center bearing on the 3260 mower decks wobbles like crazy so that will get fixed as well. Any ideas as to what I broke? As always-thanks for the great advice. I want to get my baby ready for the mowing season. 72 degrees here today.

Steve in Iowa
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby RaymondDurban » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Ok, so if I'm reading this correctly, you cannot spin the engine by hand, nor will the starter/generator spin the engine.
With this I would...
1) make sure that the fan belt is tight enough to spin the engine. The one I have torn down now had a loose/old belt and the starter/generator would spin on the belt until I stuck my boot to the belt to cause it to grab and spin the engine. Then it would crank and run just fine.
2) pull the valve tappet cover and attempt (carefully) to pry the valves up one at a time to make sure that they are free and not stuck.
3) engage the PTO pulley and attempt to turn the pulley so that it will back feed the and turn the engine (transmission in neutral)
4) put the tractor in gear and gently rock the rear wheels and see if the fan will move.

If all is good with the above checks then I'd follow Bobs advice and try to narrow down the noise and problem...
Hamiltonbob wrote:Hi Steve, Take the pin out of the hub, directly behind the engine flywheel, which holds the driveshaft. First thing I would do is to determin if the noise is from the engine or drivetrain. !54's can mak a lot of different noises in the drivetrain....
User avatar
RaymondDurban
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 4171
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:45 pm
Location: CO, Peyton
Zip Code: 80831
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:06 am

Yes, that is correct-I cannot turn the crank shaft pulley by hand nor will the stater/generator turn it. Last year when I did the damage I could get it to turn over and almost run but it had a knocking sound so I decided to wait until it started to warm up. That is why I expected to see something broken when I dropped the oil pan. I am fairly certain the belt is tight enough but will check it. Am I wrong in assuming that with the tractor tranny in neutral that I should be able to rotate the crank pulley by hand? I will look for the pin Bob mentioned to rule out the PTO. The PTO was not engaged when all of this happened but better to rule it out. I will try your other two suggestions as well. Thanks much for the replies.

Steve -in Iowa
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby gitractorman » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:07 am

When you place the transmission in neutral, can you roll the tractor around freely? If so, place the tractor in 2nd or 3rd gear and try to roll it front/back, to see if you can get the drivetrain to turn the engine. If the tractor still rolls freely, while the transmission is in gear, you've likely got a broken pin in the driveshaft coupler. This doesn't have anything to do with why it won't start, but we need to isolate potential problems.

If you did turn the engine by rolling the tractor, now try to start it again with the starter (in neutral of corse). It could be that the engine was stopped at the top of a compression stroke, and the starter would not turn past that point because it had a hard stop. Rolling the tractor (and turning the engine) may get the engine past the compression stroke and make it easier for the starter to turn.

If you could not push the tractor around freely when in neutral, the transmission may be stuck in gear, and may be why you cannot start the engine. Transmission forks may have slipped off and not be shifting properly.
Also, the clutch may be bound and not disengaging when you depress the pedal.

Those are just some thoughts.
Bill
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2023
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:57 pm

Okay, I just had a short time to try a couple of the suggestions. I put the tranny in neutral and was able to move the tractor back and forth no problems. I put the tractor in 3rd and could not move it at all. Tried 2nd and the same thing. I put it back in neutral and engaged the PTO. I was able to spin the engine without much effort. I tried it back and forth several times to see if it stopped at some point. So it would appear I have no PTO or engine damage. I guess the only things left are the clutch and the tranny. I need to put the oil pan back on and fill it with oil before I try starting it again. If I remove the pin Bill was talking about I assume that would be taking the PTO out of the picture. Since that does not appear to be my problem I will not go that route. Is there an inspection hole or something I can take a look at the clutch? Sorry for the questions. I have a manual coming. I want to get this sorted out so I can use the tractor. Thanks.

Steve -in Iowa
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby RaymondDurban » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:19 pm

Remove the tunnel cover to expose the clutch and driveshaft. The two side covers may need to be removed as well to open up a bit move space and ease of access.
User avatar
RaymondDurban
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 4171
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:45 pm
Location: CO, Peyton
Zip Code: 80831
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby gitractorman » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:44 pm

Something you said doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You say that "I put it back in neutral and engaged the PTO. I was able to spin the engine without much effort."

By the statement above, did you engage the PTO then turn the PTO by hand, or did you engage the PTO then turn the engine by hand somehow? BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!! My guess is you engaged the PTO then turned the PTO at the mower pulley by hand. The fact that it spun freely just means that the PTO clutch is shot and is not really engaged to the engine, or the PTO belts are broken, or the driveshaft coupler is shot (the pin that we've all been talking about is broken) and all you're doing is turning the drive shaft, and you did NOT turn the engine at all. On a 154, it would be very difficult to turn the engine by engaging and turning the PTO by hand. I would hold off on putting oil back in the engine, as you still have a major problem somewhere.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2023
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Think I Really Blew It This Time

Postby 67datroad » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:48 pm

Not the first time I have been accused of not making much sense. :D I put the tranny in neutral-engaged the PTO by pulling up on the PTO lever. I then grabbed the big PTO pulley on the back of the tractor that runs the mower and turned the pulley. It did not turn easily but it did turn-and not at all freely. I know the front crank shaft pulley moved because I put a spot of paint on the belt that drives the fan so I could track it. Pretty sure the crank shaft was turning. Tomorrow I will pull the tunnel cover off. There are a couple of stripped bolts there but now will be a good time to repair them as well. I had already removed the two side shields that expose the back of the engine where the drive shaft and PTO connect to the engine. The PTO belts are intact. Again, I appreciate the input.

Steve in Iowa
67datroad
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Knoxville, Iowa
Zip Code: 50138
Tractors Owned: 1973 IH Cub Lo Boy 154 3pt-creeper

Next

Return to LoBoy Series - 154, 184, 185

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest