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Weak Spark
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- 10+ Years
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- Zip Code: 35216
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1949 Cub
2011 JD X320 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Birmingham Al/Bay Springs Ms.
Weak Spark
My magneto generated a very weak spark, so I replaced the coil and condenser. I can’t say that there has been any improvement in the spark generated. If I place a spark plug wire directly in the coil cover, I get a visible but very weak spark. However, I get no spark at the magneto cap. I am wondering if the magnet in the unit can lose it’s strength over time (absent some physical damage). Any ideas about what I may need to do to get a decent spark out of this magneto?
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
- Bigdog
- Team Cub Mentor
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Re: Weak Spark
The magnets can lose their strength. When mags were commonplace there were re-magnetizers around. I just did a quick google search for "how to re-magnetize a magnet" and there were several links.
This is one of them:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4878360_old-mag ... gnets.html
This is one of them:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4878360_old-mag ... gnets.html
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
- Rick Prentice
- Team Cub Guide
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Re: Weak Spark
I'll be watching this post closely to pick up some pointers I acquired a small magnet charger for my "stationary engines" and thought the cub magneto magnet could also be recharged with it too. I quickly noticed the mag setup is entirely different and was told it's supposed to be a "permanent" charge magnet and never needs charged, but I still have my doubts and agree with Bigdog. I did a search on ebay back then for a tester(I forget the name) to see how much charge various magnets had, but I never bought one. It also gets a little confusing trying to determine which is N and which is S because of the way the mag is designed. My compass picked up the direction, but trying to get the charger adapted and then knowing how much was enough was the big issue. I didn't want to remove any charge if the charger was too small, if that's possible with a so-called "permanent" magnet.
Rick
Rick
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"
- RaymondDurban
- Cub Pro
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Re: Weak Spark
I have never heard or read where a Cub or any letter series tractor having to have the Mag recharged due to "weak magnets".
Have you changed the coil? The weak spark, is that with or without the tripping the impulse coupling?
Have you changed the coil? The weak spark, is that with or without the tripping the impulse coupling?
Screwstick #3934
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
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Re: Weak Spark
I don't see mention of doing anything to the points. If not, either carefully clean or replace them.
IH used alnico alloy magnets in the H series and J-4 magnetos. The older hard steel magnets tended to loose magnetism and needed to be recharged periodically. The alnico magnets are generally considered to be truly permanent, much more so than the iron magnets.
IH used alnico alloy magnets in the H series and J-4 magnetos. The older hard steel magnets tended to loose magnetism and needed to be recharged periodically. The alnico magnets are generally considered to be truly permanent, much more so than the iron magnets.
- Rick Spivey
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Re: Weak Spark
I don't know any way to recharge the AlNico magnets in the J4 magneto. They are "supposed" to be permanent, and usually are. However, Joe Howard had one that had lost its magnetism. I can only assume that happened from a previous owner's "mishandling" of that magneto, probably getting it near another source of magnetism. Whenever you remove the shaft from a J4, it is supposed to be inside a protective "sleeve", just to insure no harm comes to it.
I agree with Jim, you didn't mention points, so be sure they are addressed as well. If you still don't get a good spark, ship me that magneto and I'll fix it for you.
Oh yeah, just to be sure, the points in a magneto are gapped to .013", while a distributor is gapped to .020". Check it twice.
I agree with Jim, you didn't mention points, so be sure they are addressed as well. If you still don't get a good spark, ship me that magneto and I'll fix it for you.
Oh yeah, just to be sure, the points in a magneto are gapped to .013", while a distributor is gapped to .020". Check it twice.
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 2:04 pm
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- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1949 Cub
2011 JD X320 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Birmingham Al/Bay Springs Ms.
Re: Weak Spark
I have not replaced the points, but they are in fine shape and properly gapped (.013). Has anyone actually had a J4 magneto re-magnetized? If I cannot get a decent spark, can the magneto be converted to use a battery actuated coil, or is a distributor required?
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
- RaymondDurban
- Cub Pro
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Re: Weak Spark
Like I said above, I've never heard or read of a J4 Mag being remagnatized. The Mag can be converted to act like a distributor, but it is not the direction I would recommend. You loose the benefits that the Mag inherently has and won't gain the benifits of the full distributor either. You end up with a ignition system that is sub par to both.
I would recommend fixing the Mag you have, or completely swapping out for a distributor.
I would recommend fixing the Mag you have, or completely swapping out for a distributor.
Screwstick #3934
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 2:04 pm
- Zip Code: 35216
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1949 Cub
2011 JD X320 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Birmingham Al/Bay Springs Ms.
Re: Weak Spark
Raymond, I went back down to my basement after my last post. I fiddled a little bit more with the mag and realized that may not have quite the problem that I thought. I have been testing the mag with the coil to magneto cap cable from my new ignition wire set, however, the wire from cap to test spark plug was from an old automobile wire set. The old set was a resistor type with carbon filiment rather than copper wire. If I test directly from the coil with the copper wire, I get a good spark, but I have no spark going through the rotor and cap. My rotor seems to have a good bit of free play back and forth. I wonder if it could be worn to the point that it will not properly transmit the spark from rotor to cap and on to the spark plug.
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
- RaymondDurban
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:45 pm
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Re: Weak Spark
It could very well be. Check the condition of the teeth on both the rotor and the pinion gear for wear, and make sure that they are properly installed and "in line". Check the cleanliness of the inside of the cap and all the conductive parts.
Copper core wires are a must as you have found out!
Copper core wires are a must as you have found out!
Screwstick #3934
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 2:04 pm
- Zip Code: 35216
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1949 Cub
2011 JD X320 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Birmingham Al/Bay Springs Ms.
Re: Weak Spark
Does the rotor and pinon gear have to be "in time"? Is there some type of mark on the two components which must be aligned when installed? (I have not yet removed the rotor from the pinion gear. Thanks
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
- RaymondDurban
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:45 pm
- Zip Code: 32536
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: FL, Crestview
Re: Weak Spark
thiggy wrote:Does the rotor and pinon gear have to be "in time"? Is there some type of mark on the two components which must be aligned when installed? (I have not yet removed the rotor from the pinion gear. Thanks
Yes, they have to be in time and there is a timing mark on both.
(photo courtesy of Rick Prentice)
Screwstick #3934
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
FCub - LoBoy - Numbered Series - Power Unit Databases
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 2:04 pm
- Zip Code: 35216
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1949 Cub
2011 JD X320 - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Birmingham Al/Bay Springs Ms.
Re: Weak Spark
Thanks, Raymond. I was hesitant about removing the rotor and pinion gear till I knew that I would be able to re-assemble correctly. Stanley
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
- BIGHOSS
- Cub Pro
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and a Palomino Mare named GIGI - Circle of Safety: Y
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Re: Weak Spark
To reply to what little I know about re-magnitizing the magnet in a mag. I traded my original mag a few years ago to a man named John Jones in McMinnville TN. I was going to have him rebuild mine, but since he had a fresh rebuilt one on his shelf, I swapped out with him to keep from making another half day trip there and back. But anyway, while I was in his shop, he showed me a "magnitizer" that was from an old John Deere dealership in his area. According to him, this is what he used when the magnet lost it magnatism.
Other than that, I have no personal knowledge how effective the process is.
Other than that, I have no personal knowledge how effective the process is.
"Courage is being scared to death-but saddling up anyway".......John Wayne
- Rick Spivey
- Cub Pro
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- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:07 pm
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Re: Weak Spark
Again, magnetizers were necessary for the older "ferrous" mag cores. The J4 uses an "AlNico" alloy that is considered a permanent magnet. I, like Raymond, have never heard of anyone "recharging" a J4 core, nor would I have a clue how to do it. If you really do find a damaged one that has no magnetism any longer, replace, it. Call me, I have lots of cores....
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
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