Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

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Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Rudi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:16 am

Started looking at the parts I am going to need. Used Don's chart for most of the parts. Tried to find a jpg of it but can't so will just reference it.

Questions:

    1. Item # 26 ST225B Bearing BRG6205J I can get the 6205 bearing locally (what does the J stand for and is there a difference)

    2. Item # 29 254091R1 O-Ring - where do I source this one?

    3. Item # 34 19857D Seal NOS12427 National 450048 - not available locally, no cross reference either. Will have to take part in to have it sized for replacement once it comes out of the E-tank. What seal does everyone else use and where do I get it?

    4. Item # 37 351274R91 Bearing - Koyo Torrington B-1210-OH Needle Roller Bearing, Full Complement Drawn Cup, Open, Oil Hole, Inch, 3/4" ID, 1" OD, 5/8" Width, 5500rpm Maximum Rotational Speed (amazon.com - $12.04 - out of stock), Timken B-1210-OH (Summit Racing - $5.95), Koyo Torrington B-1210-OH (Bearings.net - $12.60), B-1210 (Fundy Bearings - local - $8.00, no shipping but no Oil Hole). Is the Oil Hole required? or will the needle bearings get enough from the Belt Pulley Drive oil bath reservoir?

    5. Item # 42 351277R1 Gasket where do I source this one.

    6. Item # 44 351276R91 Seal NOS11801 CR 11801 Can source locally for around $5.00 to $6.00

I checked TM's site and there is nothing there for the Belt Pulley. Am I looking in the wrong place?
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:36 am

Rudi, I just checked the Fastenal website and the o-ring is listed as 2 3/4"ID, 3" OD, 1/8" diameter. You may find that at an auto parts store. I think you'll need to plan on making the gasket. I'll look in my box and see if I had anything left over from the last one.

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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Cecil » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:47 am

If needed Columbia should have tghe gasket.
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:13 pm

Rudi, It looks like the 3" o-ring is also a Toro part# 511284. Let me know if you can't find one.

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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Buzzard Wing » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:37 am

Rudi, I think I will bring along the Mott flail mower pulley (leaks at the front seal) and another I have.

Looks like most of the parts are still in the CaseIH supply chain. But the front seal may be a problem?? I may pull the partially disassembled one out and check the center bearing to see what it is marked or just get it with the other stuff from C&G or Columbia.

BTW ST 225B is a 6205-J and is pretty common, but don't get anything but a 'J' (steel cage, no seals or shields). Takes 2 of them. I would stick with a good brand, SKF, NTN, etc. It is the same bearing as the PTO shaft (that one a sealed bearing may be the way to go??) .

Where did you get the number for the needle bearing?? Pretty sure that is WRONG for the PTO pulley?? I got the last one in stock from Amazon, but it's going in my long stripe tranny. It is the main shaft bearing in the case on later Cubs. Front one is a 6004, but on a Cadet they used ST 225B (6205).
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Criswell » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:48 pm

For the bearing, the suffix (in this case "J") just denotes what type of shielding (if any) is present on the bearing (if it is a "W" that means it is a wider bearing than the normal number without the "W"). For this bearing I bought the Timken 205BB bearing, most any local auto parts store should have or be able to get it. The Timken cost a little bit more, but I feel better buying Timken bearings. As for the O-ring, I was able to find that at a plumbing supply house (using the dimensions given above, 2.75" x 3" x 0.125"). For the seal (19857D), the new IH number is 63431C1, also the 450048 number that you have and 12123 as a crossover number (which I believe is Chicago Rawhide). As for the bearing 351274R91, I found the Timken crossover to be 1204TS (about $30).

These were the parts that I had used when I rebuilt the right-angle drive for my Cub. Everything fit and works fine with no problems.
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:55 pm

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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:19 pm

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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby phildidit » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:23 pm

rudi, I have an extra o ring if you send me your address I will put it in the mail.
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Buzzard Wing » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:39 pm

In general, I have found a huge advantage in getting bearings and seals from a dealer or TM. I got 'stuck' with some not so great bearings (odd brand) at NAPA once that were more money than a dealer.... two that should have been identical were from 2 different MFG's and one was obviously 'cheaper' than the other, but neither was a Timken!

Yep Criswell, it is false economy to get cheap bearings. I try very hard to stick with Timken or SKF, sometimes NTN. If I have to put a east European or China bearing in, I would almost rather put the original back in. The good thing about IH was they seem to have over-spec'ed everything! From what I have seen the only 'failures' were caused by water. The wheel bearings on the 49 I had were apparently original tapered roller bearing with NO CAGE. Never seen that before, but the bearings were fine. Good for another 60 years after repacking.

Thanks for updating the 'list' Don. I don't have anything to add just now, except possibly to make the cross on the 6205 read '6205-J' That is a very common bearing and often (usually) has seals. 'J' indicates it's open with a steel ribbon holding the balls in place.

The ATIS list of Cub parts show the tranny input shaft to be 'SKF 60052RS' where it should be 6005-J. Had me thrown for a while, till I understood they skipped a dash and it should have read 6005-2RS..... Although it will work, 2RS means 2 rubber seals. Not really right in a lubricated gear box, but perfect for a snowmobile idler wheel:

Source: http://www.astbearings.com/bearing-closures.html

Type 2RS - Molded rubber seal. This type of seal is Buna-N bonded to a steel insert. The seal is fixed into a groove in the outer ring. This type of seal can be removed but care must be used not to bend or cut the seal lip. Max operating temperature is 240° F. This type of seal makes contact with the inner ring providing better protection in contaminated environments than a metal shield. However, this results in an increase in torque and reduces the max speed capability of the bearing. Certain lubricants and chemicals react with rubber. The code for a single seal is RS.

I will have to check the service manual, but pretty sure you may need the plug on the 'side' of the housing, so pretty well need to order stuff from a dealer anyway. I may go poke around the bag that has the pulley in it and see what I can see. I don't want to pull the one off the Mott till I am done mowing for the year.

As for seals I found the same thing as Don has updated here:
http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/incat ... 56723.html
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Rudi » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Okey dokey:

Gasket and O-RIngs have been sourced so they are not a worry. I need to figure out if I got the rest of the parts right.

Rudi wrote:Started looking at the parts I am going to need. Used Don's chart for most of the parts. Tried to find a jpg of it but can't so will just reference it.

Questions:

    1. Item # 26 ST225B Bearing BRG6205J I can get the 6205 bearing locally : I need to get the J style because of the steel band so that the bearings get lubricated correct? Do not get them with seals or shields but the steel cage is ok? Also, if I cannot get the 6205J then I should get the Timken 205BB?

    3. Item # 34 19857D Seal NOS12427 National 450048 - not available locally, no cross reference either. Will have to take part in to have it sized for replacement once it comes out of the E-tank. What seal does everyone else use and where do I get it? I have a feeling I might be able to source this one locally ... thanks Don for the updated chart.

    4. Item # 37 351274R91 Bearing - Koyo Torrington B-1210-OH Needle Roller Bearing, Full Complement Drawn Cup, Open, Oil Hole, Inch, 3/4" ID, 1" OD, 5/8" Width, 5500rpm Maximum Rotational Speed (amazon.com - $12.04 - out of stock), Timken B-1210-OH (Summit Racing - $5.95), Koyo Torrington B-1210-OH (Bearings.net - $12.60), B-1210 (Fundy Bearings - local - $8.00, no shipping but no Oil Hole). Is the Oil Hole required? or will the needle bearings get enough from the Belt Pulley Drive oil bath reservoir? (Larry, I am confused on this one. This is the needle bearing you referred to .. but is it the one for the tranny or the PTO? If it is not for the PTO, what bearing do I have to get for the PTO?)

    6. Item # 44 351276R91 Seal NOS11801 CR 11801 Can source locally for around $5.00 to $6.00: SKF 11801 and not Chicago Rawhide? Or will Chicago Rawhide still work?
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:17 pm

SKF owns CR.
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Rudi » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:34 pm

Don:

I didn't know that.. now I do :D
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Boss Hog » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:49 pm

buy the good bearings
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Re: Belt Pulley Gear Box Rebuild

Postby Rudi » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm

was there any doubt????

I still need to know the answer to #1 and #4 though.
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