clodhopper wrote:\. As a matter of fact other than parts prices, I would say the voltage of any system is completely irrelevant as long as it is designed properly and maintained properly. Having said that, if it takes more that 1 revolution to start the tractor you have other things to consider. If it wont start at all, then grinding away on the starter will cause damage to any voltage system.
Egg-zactly. If the logic most people applied to converting to 12 volts really held water, they'd be going straight to 24 volts....bet that would really make the starter spin in cold weather!!
It's like a presidential debate Everybody has reasons for both systems and I understand that. I have owned both. However there is no question that a 12 volt will spin the engine faster, resulting in a better starting tractor in general in all conditions. My reasons are simple, battery-bad, generator-not functioning, full tune up in order- why not go ahead and get 12 volt coil now, new battery- might as well do the conversion. I will finish it up next week and it should be good to go for a long time. Also with the alternator one good benefit is the charging amps they carry compared to a generator. So if for instance the battery may be dead one day because my son turned the light switch or something playing, then a quick jump will get the battery back charged rather quickly. Thanks for all the opinions and as always these type of questions generate a good debate to follow.
Chris D wrote:It's like a presidential debate Everybody has reasons for both systems and I understand that. I have owned both. However there is no question that a 12 volt will spin the engine faster, resulting in a better starting tractor in general in all conditions.
Of course it will spin it faster if it is still a 6 volt starter. A healthy 6 volt system will spin a 6 volt starter just as fast as a healthy 12 volt system will spin a 12 volt starter. If the 6 volt system won't, then there is something wrong somewhere. In that case a 12 volt conversion is a band-aid.
One thing I am curious about with the 12 volt conversions. Now I am not anti 12 volts, but over and over when this discussion is had I hear people make the statement "12 volts spins the engine faster". My question is this... does the later style 12 volt factory cubs spin fater than the earlier style 6 volt cubs? Now, keep in mind, if an early cub is converted, you are now running a 6 volt starter at 12 volts. Obviously it is going to spin a little faster. But for the sake of the "its a more reliable system" argument, wouldn't we then want to convert the later style cubs to 24 volts, as Al stated earlier? Chris D- I agree 100%. BAd battery, VR, and Generator= time to convert IMO simply from a cost standpoint. Please keep in mind though, there have been lots of people who converted thinking it was magically going to make all their problems disappear, and ending up aggravated when their expectations weren't met. When I bought Betty Lou (1950) the wiring was bare, the battery was shot, and she wouldn't charge. I rewired her (had the wire already) serviced the generator myself (brush kit...inexpensive) cleaned up and set the cutout per the manuals on this website, and bought a blemish optima spiral cell battery for 45 bucks.
clodhopper wrote:I got longwinded and AL beat me to the punch...LOL
No way I know to put a tach on it, but to me a properly tuned 6 volt starter turns a comparable speed as a properly tuned 12 volt. 12 volts on a 6 volt starter makes it really SPIN.
One of my main quarrels with a 12 volt conversion is something almost always gets rigged/mommicked/munged up somehow. People (other than the folks on this forum who know better!) start cutting Cub hoods, bubblegum welding angle iron together to make mounting brackets, strapping resistors wherever, and so on. It's even worse on Super A's and the like where the alternator is right out there in the open. I have seen some conversions that look more like abstract art......and the idiotsI mean, owners are always so PROUD because it's 12 volt!
Some people seem to look at 12 volts as if it is some great new invention and everyone needs to have one. It isn't. Delco lighting plants have been around for nearly a hundred years and they were 32-volts! If IH or Delco had thought a Cub needed 12-volts, it would have been built that way. The later Cubs were built with 12-volt systems because 12-volt components had become cheaper. The reason they were cheaper is becuase the automotive industry had changed to 12 volts. The automotive industry changed to 12 volts bacuase of all the electrical accessories that were being added. They could use smaller wires. If you don't think that was important, look at some of the last 6-volt cars that had air conditioning etc. and see how big the wire bundles were getting. Modern cars have 100+ amp alternators. To carry the same power at 6-volts, they would need cables the size of the service entry into your house. Unless your Cub has air conditioning, power windows and electric power steering, you just don't have the same problem.
As far as cranking speed, yes I think the 12-volt tractors with 12-volt starters do turn faster than one on 6 volts. This video has a 6-volt tractor and two 12-volt tractors being started. Watch and judge for yourself what the relative cranking speeds are. Also see what the relative cranking times are to start. An engine that needs to spin fast to start has other problems, probably poor compression.
If you are concerned about minimizing cost, use whatever battery you can put your hands on for least cost and don't have any charging system. Buy a $20 battery maintainer. A Cub will run all day without a battery. On a fresh charge, it will probably run most of a night with the lights on. If you happen to have a magneto and don't use the lights, you can probably go for months. The battery maintainer is also the best way to get the longest life out of a battery.